Esther Choi Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond coming to you from Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Each week, we talk to the coolest culinary personalities around, the folks shaping and shaking up the food scene.
Joining me today is Chef Esther Choi of Mökbar and Ms. Yoo in New York City. She is also one of the stars of the Netflix Iron Chef reboot, Iron Chef: Quest For An Iron Legend. If you haven't watched yet, the show has an all-star cast including Chef Dominique Crenn and Gabriela Cámara, and a ton of culinary prowess gets tossed around. Esther is amazing and she has worked so hard to get where she is in the industry. I think you'll be very inspired by her story and her passion.
We have a brand new sponsor today, and I am so excited to introduce you to them because they are one of my faves. It's Wild Planet, the company known for its sustainable seafood, a subject I care about a great deal. Some of you may know this about me, but I care deeply about protecting and preserving our world's oceans, and I cannot walk on a beach and ignore litter, especially of the plastic variety. I have to clean it up. You got to keep that plastic out of the ocean. Needless to say, I was thrilled when the like-minded folks at Wild Planet reached out. I was already a fan of their tinned sardines and mackerel, and I just recently tried Wild Planet's canned tuna, which is 100% line and pole caught and might be the best canned tuna out there. Wild Planet was founded in 2004 with the mission to transform fishing into a force that could reinvigorate the oceans. They have been at this for a long time. Wild Planet is committed to caring for the health of the oceans and they follow procedures that minimize by-catch, a practice in which billions of pounds of aquatic creatures are caught and discarded, even dolphins.
The team at Wild Planet believes that even just one decision you make can impact today and tomorrow. So make the decision to support a company that lives its values. We talk about that a lot here at Radio Cherry Bombe. That is very important. Look for Wild Planet at your favorite supermarket or health food store, or visit wildplanetfoods.com. Remember, there is only one Wild Planet.
What else? Make sure you're signed up for our fun Friday newsletter. Visit cherrybombe.com to sign up so you don't miss news about upcoming events and special radio guests. Speaking of special radio guests, let's chat with today's guest.
Esther Choi, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Esther Choi:
Thank you for having me, Kerry. I'm so excited to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
So many things I want to talk to you about. You're a Jersey girl. You are a hustler. I read your bio and then some, and I can't believe how much you do. I feel like we could do a whole episode on just time management and organizational skills.
Esther Choi:
Oh God, oh God, I'm still working on that.
Kerry Diamond:
You are? Well, let's start with Iron Chef because that is such a big deal and you really kicked butt on the show. And for the listeners out there, I'm going to say this right now. There are spoiler alerts ahead. If you haven't watched the new Iron Chef yet, please hit pause and go watch. It's really fun. Is it eight episodes?
Esther Choi:
It's eight episodes, mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
Eight episodes. Each one’s kind of long, and you really have to be in the head space to watch it. It's not a mindless watch…
Esther Choi:
Definitely not.
Kerry Diamond:
... like some competition shows that are just fun and very snackable. I learned a ton watching this Iron Chef.
Esther Choi:
You definitely have to pay attention if you want to follow because it's a very high quality cooking, so if you're not following, you'll get lost.
Kerry Diamond:
That's a good way to put it. It's a thinking person's competition show. We can say that. I would love to know how did you wind up being a contestant?
Esther Choi:
I got a call from my agent who got a call from Eytan, who's the executive producer on the show, and he was looking to fill one slot for a competitor. I think he interviewed a bunch of people for the last slot and it ended up being me. But I have worked on the show for previous seasons on the production team. Yeah, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
What did you do?
Esther Choi:
I was a buyer, so all the food that you saw on the show was bought by me and my team. Yeah. Which was crazy. It was a crazy job.
Kerry Diamond:
There are some very interesting ingredients.
Esther Choi:
I've learned about just every chef's mind through just the ingredient buying and sourcing. And a lot of the ingredients you have to buy from like all over the world. You’d have to source them. And sometimes we would have to get on calls with people from all over. And time zones are different and getting it in on time, and it was very intense job, but it was my absolute favorite. It…
Kerry Diamond:
That is so cool.
Esther Choi:
I learned so much from it. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you feel that gave you an edge over the contestants, the other contestants?
Esther Choi:
To be honest, I'm so well versed on how the show works both behind the scenes and in front of the scenes. And I definitely think that experience helped me obviously be very successful on the show.
Kerry Diamond:
That's so funny because I read on your bio that you worked at the Food Network, but I thought that meant all the on air stuff you've done because you've got a long list of on air credits. I didn't realize there was a behind-the-scenes component.
Esther Choi:
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, very interesting.
Esther Choi:
Yeah. Perhaps my experience from working behind the scenes molded my character in front of the camera.
Kerry Diamond:
Got it. Okay. You were the last contestant chosen?
Esther Choi:
I believe so. I believe so.
Kerry Diamond:
You don't know that for a fact?
Esther Choi:
I don't know it for a fact, but I'm pretty sure. I'm 99% sure.
Kerry Diamond:
And what a success story, to have worked behind the scenes on the show and now to be a contestant and to have done as well as you did on the show. But did they have to tell you anything to lure you in?
Esther Choi:
Not really. I feel like they gauge interest in all the people on the show and then see who really wants to do it. Or some people are hesitant, but I was definitely like, this is the competition show of my dreams. And I've been asked to be on many competition shows like Top Chef and Chopped, all of the competition shows you can think of I've been asked to be on. I typically turn them down right away because I don't feel like it fits who I am as a chef. But with Iron Chef and the model of competition behind it, it was definitely something that I've always wanted to do. And if I were ever to compete on anything, it would be that show.
Kerry Diamond:
Just to be totally honest, I never really watched the original Iron Chef. What I remembered of it was like Bobby Flay jumping on his cutting board, and there was a whole controversy about how he disrespected the tools of the kitchen or something. It just never felt like a show that I was that into, but I was so taken by this new Iron Chef. How are the two different?
Esther Choi:
I think the format is very similar, but the whole season is different because then there's a finale battle, which is not typical in any of the Iron Chefs. I do think that Netflix definitely made it a very “now” Iron Chef, meaning the different types of backgrounds of the chefs that they chose. They were very selective and really smart about how they presented the show in modern day life, I guess.
Kerry Diamond:
Did they tell you who the Iron Chefs were going to be, or was that a surprise?
Esther Choi:
I knew. Yeah, they did tell me. Mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
The way the show works is you've got the chef contestants, you've got the Iron Chefs, you've got the hosts, and Alton Brown was back with an additional host, Kristen Kish. Was so exciting to see Kristen. She's a good friend of Cherry Bombe's. You've got the judges. And then each chef contestant would battle a different Iron Chef.
Esther Choi:
Yes. Correct.
Kerry Diamond:
And then in the middle they dropped an Iron Chef competition where they battled each other. And then at the very end, the chef contestant who had gotten the highest score had to take on the Iron Chefs as a single team.
Esther Choi:
Yes, all five at once.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes. Do you go into something like this with a plan?
Esther Choi:
I think in a competition series like Iron Chef, yes, definitely, because there's no way possible that someone could just go in there blindly and have to cook these beautiful five dishes in an hour.
Kerry Diamond:
That time is the legit time?
Esther Choi:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
That's not edited for television?
Esther Choi:
No, definitely not. Definitely, the hour is the hour you're cooking, so that is definitely…
Kerry Diamond:
That's a lot of food to make. Wow. I was like, they must edit this for TV.
Esther Choi:
Yeah, no, definitely not, definitely not. That's the one great thing about the show is that it's very real. Well, obviously the secret ingredient and planning out the menu, you get to do that ahead of time. You do.
Kerry Diamond:
You do, because there's no way they can source all your ingredients and, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me tell you what a sucker I am. I totally thought you found out the secret ingredient right there.
Esther Choi:
They give you two options of what the secret ingredient might be, and then the day of you do find out in the morning when you get there. And then you make sure that all of your ingredients that you requested is up to standards.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you start strategizing?
Esther Choi:
A month before the episode is actually shot, they give you the two possible secret ingredients, and then they give you the theme of the battle, if there is one. Obviously my theme was “tailgate,” and then they gave me like the two possible options of what the ingredient might be. And it was ribs and it was... I think it was shellfish or something was the other one. From there, you have to plan out two menus and then send them everything that you need for both menus. And then the day of, you find out what the actual secret ingredient is. You have to strategize for like two battles, kind of.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm still impressed. Even though you're not making that up on the fly, I'm still impressed that you pulled that off. And when you found out one of the options was “tailgate,” I'm just going to be honest, and I apologize to anyone who likes football out there, I just can't stand football.
Esther Choi:
Okay. That's…
Kerry Diamond:
Sorry, America.
Esther Choi:
Honestly, Kerry, that was me. I was like, why do…
Kerry Diamond:
You're like, “tailgate”?
Esther Choi:
Yeah. I'm like, out of everything out there, why do I have to be stuck with “tailgate”?
Kerry Diamond:
Not only did “tailgate” wind up being the episode, and you did not show any disappointment on your face so good for you, they paired you with a football player. You had this giant football player as one of your sous chefs. Did you know that was happening?
Esther Choi:
I knew that was happening a week before the battle, and I was like, “Are you serious right now?” Not only is it just stressful as it is, but then on top of that you have to like babysit this person, a football player, let alone, to execute some of your food.
Kerry Diamond:
Because you get to bring your own team.
Esther Choi:
Yes. Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Who did you bring?
Esther Choi:
I brought my longtime chefs, Jin Jang and Il Ji Cheung, who have worked with me for over five years. And they know me better than I know myself, which is so great because they're like an extension of my arm. As a team, it's really important to be like very in sync, especially when you're competing that intensely. You're depending on your team so much.
Kerry Diamond:
When and where did you film?
Esther Choi:
It was last December, December of 2021, and then it aired six months later, I guess. Six or seven months later.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you film in L.A.?
Esther Choi:
Mm-hmm. In L.A.. Mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. And how long did you have to stay there?
Esther Choi:
We battled, and then that night or the next day they were going to tell me if I'm going to compete in the finale. And then if so, then I stay a few extra days. If not, then I go home. It was dependent on how well I did.
Kerry Diamond:
What did you do to mentally prepare?
Esther Choi:
I think what the toughest thing is about a competition like this is that it's the anticipation towards the actual battle. The day of the battle, I'm extremely calm actually, and I'm not emotional at all, I'm just like very in the zone. But leading up to it, I had so much anxiety, just crazy anxiety. Since the day we got the assignment of what the battle is to the day of the battle there is just no resting in terms of my stress and anxiety. And I just can't help but to like obsess. And I've obsessed and had a lot of sleepless nights.
And then leading towards the battle up to the battle that week, I remember being just crazy but also crazy intense, meaning I made sure we practiced, practiced, practiced. Me and my team, we practiced the battle multiple times just because we needed to get the timing right. And I wanted to do as many things as possible in that hour. And the only way to do that is to strategize and practice and really, really know never to miss a beat. And that's how I was able to do so much in one hour. The power of editing, but they took out more than 80% of the actual stuff that we actually did. It was just crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
There was so much culinary technique and prowess on display during the show. It was very impressive.
Esther Choi:
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay everybody, this is the big spoiler alert so I'm giving you time. If the radio's across the room or whatever listening device you're using, walk across the room, shut it off right now because I'm about to tell you that Esther kind of won.
Esther Choi:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
You didn't win, but you did win.
Esther Choi:
But I didn't win.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you beat all the other chef contestants. Okay, well, let's explain exactly what happened. Esther's the chef contestant who made it all the way to the end, and she had to battle the Iron Chef team. All the Iron Chef—Chef Dom, Gabriela, Curtis, everybody, she had to battle them all. You lost by a point.
Esther Choi:
Right. Right.
Kerry Diamond:
How'd you handle that?
Esther Choi:
It was weird because I think as we were finishing the battle and being in the moment, I already felt like I won. I knew that there's no way that I would actually win. And I expected the result of obviously the Iron Chefs are going to win.
Kerry Diamond:
Like beating the house in Vegas or something?
Esther Choi:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. You never actually beat the house. And I don't know, I just feel like in the end, yes, it was great for me to get to the finale, but also, I didn't get to battle every other chef, I only battled one chef. To me, I would feel really great about it if I battled every single chef and beat every single one.
Kerry Diamond:
Look at you.
Esther Choi:
I'm a psycho, though.
Kerry Diamond:
Bring it on. Well, in the eyes of Team Cherry Bombe, you crushed it.
Esther Choi:
Thank you. Thanks so much.
Kerry Diamond:
You beat all the other chef contestants. You really cooked your heart out. I have a list of all the food you made for the finale in case you don't remember what it all was. Each dish had to be something really personal and meaningful to you. Can you walk us through some of the dishes that you remember and tell us why you made them?
Esther Choi:
It's a sequence of my life story, and that was the storyboard that I used to cook every course. Every course came from a time in my life that helped me become a chef, eventually. And the first course was a rice cake dish with dumplings. And this is something that I remember eating with my friends at school in elementary school in Korea.
Living in Korea for a very short period of time in my younger days really shaped my love for Korean culture because I was born and raised in America, in New Jersey with, actually, no other Korean. I was the only Korean kid in my school. And then my parents decided to pluck me out and throw me into a Korean school in Korea. We just moved the whole family over.
Kerry Diamond:
How old were you?
Esther Choi:
I was in third grade, so 12, I think.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's heavy.
Esther Choi:
Yeah. And I didn't speak one word of Korean. I didn't know any Korean at all, so it was very intense. But I really fell in love with everything in Korea, the culture, especially the food. And so I had all these memories with like Korean street food and eating Korean street food with these Korean kids and learning more and more about who I am as a person, as a Korean person.
And then that initially sparked my love for Korean culture. And then eventually, the reason I became a chef was because I wanted to cook Korean food. I love all types of food, but definitely knew that I had a very special talent with Korean food. That was the first course. The second course was my first restaurant job that I've ever worked at. I was 14. I worked at a Korean-Japanese restaurant called Hanabi, and I made a dish inspired by one of the sushi chefs at that restaurant. And it was…
Kerry Diamond:
Where was that restaurant?
Esther Choi:
It was in South Jersey where I grew up.
Kerry Diamond:
Still around?
Esther Choi:
It is not around anymore. It was literally a tiny hole-in-the-wall restaurant with 20 seats. And it was in the middle of the woods. It's just such a random restaurant.
Kerry Diamond:
I grew up in Staten Island, so I will never make fun of Jersey, just so you know.
Esther Choi:
Okay. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
I know a lot of people throw shade at New Jersey, but that's not going to happen here.
Esther Choi:
I don't know why.
Kerry Diamond:
You're in a safe space.
Esther Choi:
It's Jersey. Never forget where you come from. Yeah, that dish was inspired by my first restaurant experience there. And then the third course was inspired by my journey as a young cook in my 20s. And I worked at a Lebanese restaurant and a Mexican restaurant and eventually opened a Korean restaurant, so I made ssam, which is a wrap, that was represented of each culture. I did that, which I don't think the judges liked very much because they thought it was all over the place.
Kerry Diamond:
But the storytelling behind it is beautiful.
Esther Choi:
Exactly. It was all about the story. I know that it's a lot of different flavors on the plate, but the whole point of it is to tell my story. I did do that dish.
And then the fourth course, I made a ramen dish because Mökbar, my first restaurant in New York City, is a ramen shop so I had to do a ramen course. And then the fifth course, to tie it all together, I brought it back to my entire life inspiration, which is my grandmother. It's a dish that’s how I ate growing up every single day. It's how my grandmother cooks for me even now. And it's a way all Koreans eat. Lots of banchan, a soup, a protein, rice, that style of eating. And I really wanted to bring it back to why I became a chef in the first place.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's take a break, and we'll be right back with today's guest. Today's show is also supported by our friends at Whole Foods Market where you can find lots of Cherry Bombe's favorite female forward food, drink, and frozen treat brands including La Newyorkina. La Newyorkina was founded by Fany Gerson, the Mexican dessert authority who is also a Cherry Bombe magazine cover star. I hope you all saw that gorgeous cover. Fany really knows her stuff when it comes to Mexican-inspired sweets and treats.
She has authored three books on the subject, that's very impressive, and launched La Newyorkina as a way to bring the delicious sweetness and rich culture of her native Mexico to the city she now calls home. Whole Foods carries La Newyorkina's mini paletas or paletitas and four mouthwatering flavors: mango chili, pink limeade, horchata, and Mexican chocolate. Which flavor would you pick? I'm going to go with horchata. I love horchata. But whatever you choose, nothing beats the heat like one of these tasty treats from Fany and her team. Look for them in the Whole Foods ice cream aisle.
You can find La Newyorkina and other Cherry Bombe faves at Whole Foods Market locations in the New York area or by visiting wholefoodsmarket.com. Part of Whole Foods’ mission is to feature local brands, so be sure to seek out what's local and special at the Whole Foods Market nearest you. Now back to today's guest.
Tell me about your grandmother. She was a huge inspiration on you. Did you grow up with your grandmother?
Esther Choi:
My parents immigrated from Korea before I was born, and my grandmother immigrated with them, because my mom, when she got pregnant with my older sister, she needed a lot of help. And my parents were small business owners, so that's how they made ends meet. And my grandma was the one who pretty much raised all of us—my sister, me, and my brother.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you the only person with a culinary career in the family?
Esther Choi:
Yeah. Strangely. Yeah, no one else likes to cook, but my grandmother and me.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh lucky they have you and your grandmother. Okay, so back to the finale. When you found out the results, what went through your head?
Esther Choi:
Well, I actually didn't know the actual points because they don't tell you. I didn't know until I actually watched it on screen. They just announced who won, and pretty much like that's a wrap, and then it's done, so I didn't get any insight on the point system or whatever. And frankly, I didn't really care because if you lose, you lose. If you lost by a point, you still lost. I guess in a way I'm a sore loser. I don't like losing. I just don't lose. I don't do that. So it was hard but, like I said, I think in the end, I was very excited for the entire experience.
Kerry Diamond:
I do feel like there was a nicer level of collaboration than you tend to see. Am I wrong? Did you feel that, too?
Esther Choi:
You're very right. It's just the amount of respect and love and support that all of the chefs had for each other was on another level. That is what I really, really appreciated—the community that we built while filming the show. Getting to know these chefs that I looked up to my entire life and working very closely with them and them being insanely supportive is just a beautiful thing. In the end, it is a competition and everyone wants to win, obviously. Who doesn't want to win? But I think there's a much larger picture to that. It's about respect and competition, yes, but really, it's about this collaborative community that we have.
Kerry Diamond:
I think what you and I do have in common is the hustle. And as soon as I could work as a kid, I was working. So, was it just a job? Or were you like, I'm going to get a job in a restaurant?
Esther Choi:
It was just a job at that moment in time. I think that I started to apply for jobs when I was 12, 13. Maybe 13 is when I was…
Kerry Diamond:
Right. As soon as you get those working papers, right?
Esther Choi:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I remember thinking, “Oh, can I lie on the paper? How will they know how old I actually am?” Then I would go to the mall and fill out all the job applications, but I was, of course, too young. When I was 14, finally a family friend was able to just give me a job as a hostess at a restaurant. Oh my God. I just loved it so much. I loved working. Just the fact that you can make your own money to me was just the most fascinating thing. I don't have to depend on anyone. That was the biggest thing for me is the ultimate independence. For a kid, I was making a lot of money, $400, $500…
Kerry Diamond:
What were you doing at the restaurant?
Esther Choi:
I started as a hostess, but then eventually moved to a server. As a server at this restaurant, you would make $60, $70 a night in cash. That's a lot for a kid in high school. And then if you work four or five days a week, that's good money. And then, I remember I was such a baller.
For me, it came very naturally, too. I loved being around the food. And it was my first time being in a restaurant environment in that way and my first time even having sushi and Japanese food. Sushi for the first time, to me, was mind blowing. I loved everything about it, and I wanted to work more than I wanted to go to school. But my mom was very particular. She was like, "You can only work if you keep your grades up." That was the condition. I had to get all A's to be able to work. Time management, you said, I think it started at a very young age. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And then when did you decide to go to culinary school?
Esther Choi:
That was actually after I graduated from college.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Where'd you go to college?
Esther Choi:
I went to Rutgers for pharmacy specifically. It was a six-year program to become a pharmacist. That was my mom's idea. I'm Korean-American. My Asian parents were super strict on me growing up. My sister did the whole thing. You graduate honor society, you go to college, you get a job, you get married, you have a baby. It's just very structured. I was never really like that.
I understood that if I wanted what I want, I had to give my parents what they wanted or else they would just keep bothering me. I did do the whole schooling and everything, but when I graduated, I was like, "Okay, I'm done. I did everything that you told me to, but now it's my life and I get to do what I want." And then I went to culinary school and my mom almost had a heart attack, but it is what it is.
Kerry Diamond:
Is she okay today?
Esther Choi:
She's fine.
Kerry Diamond:
And you went to ICE, I-C-E?
Esther Choi:
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. What's the acronym again?
Esther Choi:
Institute of Culinary Education.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes. Right. And did you go when they had the fancy new…
Esther Choi:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
... location down at…
Esther Choi:
In FiDi right?
Kerry Diamond:
Wherever that is. Yeah.
Esther Choi:
Yeah. No, it was still…
Kerry Diamond:
Battery Park, right.
Esther Choi:
Yeah, Battery Park. No, it was on 23rd Street so it was the old school culinary school. Gosh, I'm getting old.
Kerry Diamond:
You go to culinary school. Did you have a plan in mind? Did you want to be a chef? Because you mentioned that you worked in TV after. What were you thinking?
Esther Choi:
I thought I didn't want to really be a chef, exactly. I worked in restaurants all throughout high school, college. And even while being at culinary school, I was still working in restaurants, all front of the house, though. To support myself, obviously front of the house tips are great. You make decent money. And I paid myself through school. I never thought I wanted to be a chef because when you work front of the house and then as a female especially, you're like, I don't want to work in that sweaty kitchen with all those gross guys always trying to holler at you. And that was always the case for me. I hated walking into the kitchen because everyone would holler and whistle at you, and I would get so uncomfortable as a server. I would be like, oh, I can't. And I remember avoiding going into the kitchen. As much as possible, I avoided it.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, now you get to run your own. You own the damn kitchen.
Esther Choi:
Exactly, exactly. My kitchen looks very different than a typical kitchen. It's all female. I think, I definitely didn't want to work in the kitchens or be a chef is what I thought. I was like, I want to go to culinary school because I want to work in food, but I want to work in TV or network or maybe even magazines, like test kitchen, that more corporate-y job. And I felt that way because I thought that was what you do to be a professional. It's a professional job, it's not just a blue collar job. And my parents freaked out because they thought that I wanted to cook in a kitchen. I'm like, "No, no, no, no. I want to work at the Food Network. I want to work at the magazine," blah, blah, blah. They understood. They were like, "Do whatever you got to do." And so that's why I ended up actually working at the Food Network. While I was in culinary school, I really, really fell in love with the industry.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. You saw a different side of it…
Esther Choi:
I did. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
... than the kitchens filled with harassing a-holes.
Esther Choi:
It was still filled with that, but you see a little bit more, I think.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you've been a big part of the change, which we'll talk about in a minute. Okay, so you're at the Food Network, you've graduated. When did you decide maybe I want my own restaurant? Maybe I do want to be a full-time restaurant chef.
Esther Choi:
When I was in culinary school, I took a job as a line cook. And that was my first line cook job in New York City. It was at ilili, which is a Lebanese restaurant, beautiful restaurant. I again learned about a new cuisine. And it was my first time having Lebanese food and let alone cooking it, so it was this very eye opening experience.
And then I went and cooked at a Mexican restaurant as well. All the…
Kerry Diamond:
Which one?
Esther Choi:
La Esquina. And all the while was still working the 9:00 to 5:00 at Food Network. I wanted to do both, and I wasn't sure. I think it was just the hustle, like we talked about, it's just like, I wanted to do everything.
Kerry Diamond:
And you have so much energy at that age that you can do all those things.
Esther Choi:
Yeah, in your 20s. Oh my gosh, I worked so much. I can't do that anymore.
Kerry Diamond:
No, same.
Esther Choi:
Yeah. Too old. But in my 20s, it's like you fly. You're flying everywhere. I worked 110 hour weeks, I slept for three hours a night. I had three jobs.
Kerry Diamond:
I should interject. I know there's a lot of pushback right now on the hustle culture and having to work that, but I think there's also making the choice to work that because you just... I mean, I just loved life. I loved being in New York City. I loved getting my hands in everything. I wished I could clone myself. I wanted all these experiences, and it sounds like you were the same.
Esther Choi:
What's the pushback on the hustle culture? Am I missing something? Is that there is no hustle?
Kerry Diamond:
No. I feel that there are a lot of folks who today are just looking at how the work week is structured and how it's not person first. It's just working to help companies make money. And where's the humanity? And a lot of people were taken advantage of by kitchens and had to work 80 hours, 100 hours. We've heard all those awful stories, not compensated for that time.
Esther Choi:
That was me, too. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Yeah.
Esther Choi:
I didn't care. I didn't even want to get paid. Of course you want to get paid, but I was like, you don't have to pay me. And I've worked many internships not getting paid for them, because there's something more valuable that you're getting out of it, it's the experience and the knowledge that you wouldn't get anywhere else. For me, it was not even about the money. I was the brokest I've ever been, but the happiest, just soaking in all of the knowledge and energy and the experience. And that was for me just the best time in my life. I know I was tired a lot and I worked a lot, but there's nothing like that hustle and nothing like that feeling. And even now, I try to do that and it's not the same. I'm like, oh no, I'm tired.
Kerry Diamond:
I wish I had that energy. I still just love doing so many different things. And sometimes at my age now it's a challenge, but I've never lost that enthusiasm. Okay, so Mökbar. How and why did you decide I want my own place?
Esther Choi:
Even throughout my 20s of hustling and working at the network and working all these restaurant jobs, I knew that I wanted to do my own thing. I've always known that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And my parents are small business owners, and I think it's very much part of my life and why I wanted to do or have my own thing. When I took a job at La Esquina as sous chef, it was my first restaurant management job ever, and a space inside Chelsea Market became available. Quest Love's fried chicken restaurant was going out of business, and I got the first word that it was happening. They were leaving and they were looking for a new tenant.
And I found out because my really good friend was still working at the Food Network, and we shared the elevator with the leasing guy. Food network's headquarters was in Chelsea Market. And at this point, I wasn't working at the Food Network anymore, but my friend called me and he was like, "Yo, listen, this spot opened. We got to go for it." And I'm like, "I just started this new job three months ago, Dave. Can you please leave me alone?" I was like, "Please don't get ideas in my head because I'm trying to focus on my new job." But it was too good of an opportunity to pass. I still at least had to pitch a concept.
I ended up pitching the concept and they loved it. It was a series of competition. That was the biggest competition that I've ever been in because it was a real life competition. Everyone wanted that space. They had over 3,000 applicants, and they were being very careful on who they wanted to put in there because of the previous failure. And the restaurant before failed within six months, very short lived, so there were like, okay, it's not about how much money they put into it or any of that, it's about the right concept in that space. Chelsea Market, it's a coveted food hall. There's no spaces that get open in that space or in Chelsea Market, so it was a rare opportunity. We just continued to pitch. And I did I think several tastings, business presentation, it was a whole thing. And it was three months of grueling battle. And they were like, "Okay, you made it to the top 10. Okay, now you made it to the top five."
Kerry Diamond:
They could make that TV show, right?
Esther Choi:
Oh my God, that should be a TV show…
Kerry Diamond:
Next time.
Esther Choi:
... because that was crazy. And I was 20-something.
Kerry Diamond:
You'll be a judge next time.
Esther Choi:
Yes, I'll be a judge next time, or the host of the show. And I was 27 years old. I had no idea what I was doing.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. But now you have three locations. And tell me, because I know during COVID things changed a little.
Esther Choi:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us the status of all of them today. And I think you're going to open a few more.
Esther Choi:
Yes. When I first opened Mökbar, it was a hybrid of quick service but still sit-down restaurant. Very limited seating. When I opened the second location, the Brooklyn one, I wanted to do the full-on restaurant, which we did for a while until the pandemic hit.
And then when the pandemic hit, we had to pivot the concept of Mökbar. And I really had to strategize and think about what Mökbar is as a brand, not as a single restaurant, not as a restaurant owned by Esther Choi, but Mökbar as a brand in itself and how to make it super independent that it survives even without me or not being dependent on any of the staff.
And the branding had to be super strong, so we decided to change it into a straight, quick-service restaurant—meaning, that's the concept of Mökbar. We are a quick-service restaurant, but it's all chef-driven dishes, and we are very proud of what we put out there, but it's very limited. I stopped doing so many specials and things like that. It's a very tight menu and very specific. It's a business.
Kerry Diamond:
But if any of the listeners want to stop by, can they sit and eat there?
Esther Choi:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
No. Okay, so it's…
Esther Choi:
Yeah, we got rid of all the dining.
Kerry Diamond:
It's delivery, or can you…
Esther Choi:
Takeout.
Kerry Diamond:
You could do takeout.
Esther Choi:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Esther Choi:
We changed…
Kerry Diamond:
And there are places to sit at Chelsea Market.
Esther Choi:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
If you go to Chelsea Market, you can get the food and sit somewhere.
Esther Choi:
And in Midtown as well.
Kerry Diamond:
And in Midtown. Okay.
Esther Choi:
Brooklyn, not so much. I guess you can sit like near the Barclays Center or the park.
Kerry Diamond:
You could. Brooklyn, there's always a place to sit somewhere. If you are newbie to the Mökbar world, what should you order?
Esther Choi:
You have to have one of our ramen. I feel like that's the brainchild of what Mökbar is. It's our Korean-style ramen, which is very unique. My favorite is the kimchi ramen. And some of our appetizers are hocake…
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, go back to the ramen for a second because most people know ramen as a Japanese dish. What is unique about yours?
Esther Choi:
Mökbar.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Esther Choi:
We use all the techniques that the Japanese use to make ramen, but everything is Koreanized, Korean ingredients. And all of the ramen on our menu is inspired by some sort of Korean stew, which is what I grew up with. Our kimchi ramen is inspired by kimchi jjigae, so you get a lot of that note. It's definitely a very unique concept.
And then definitely get the hocake. It's our pork bun that's filled with delicious pork belly. And I made it in one of our battles on Iron Chef. Different version, but you could still get something similar at Mökbar. And it has been on my menu for eight years. Yeah, so I would definitely get the hocake, maybe some dumplings and ramen.
Kerry Diamond:
Awesome. Now, you also have Ms. Yoo. Am I saying that right?
Esther Choi:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Which is a bar on the Lower East Side, which I've not been to…
Esther Choi:
Oh my gosh, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
... because I am not cool enough. I look at your Instagram and I'm like, I can't go there.
Esther Choi:
You should bring your Cherry Bombe team. I would love to host you. Seriously. It would be so fun.
Kerry Diamond:
And it was cool watching you in your first battle on Iron Chef because you did a drink to go with each of the courses. I was like, of course you did a little nod to Ms. Yoo.
Esther Choi:
I have to. I'm a cocktail girl and I love my cocktails.
Kerry Diamond:
How did that place come about?
Esther Choi:
That was in partnership with some friends that operated bars and clubs in the Lower East Side. And they were good friends of mine and were like, hey... They wanted to do food and I wanted to get more into cocktails and the bar programs.
Kerry Diamond:
The food looks yummy there.
Esther Choi:
Oh yeah. It's yummy, but it's bar food. It's burgers, wings, tacos. It's what you want to eat when you're drunk. It's what it is.
Kerry Diamond:
And who is Ms. Yoo? Is that you?
Esther Choi:
Ms. Yoo is my grandmother. Yeah, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Oh, so I thought it was a play on it could be everybody.
Esther Choi:
Oh yeah, I like that idea. It was inspired by my grandmother.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I love that.
Esther Choi:
She is Ms. Yoo.
Kerry Diamond:
Is that her last name?
Esther Choi:
Mm-hmm.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Okay. That's beautiful. And then you've got a product line, Sessy. Tell us about Sessy.
Esther Choi:
Sessy is a CBD-infused sesame oil, soon to be THC as well. I'm big on cannabis, and I really wanted to get into the industry early. And it was just like a fun project that…
Kerry Diamond:
Is that why you were a pharmacy major in college?
Esther Choi:
Maybe. Exactly. It was a fun partnership project with my friends at Pot d'Huile that do infused olive oils. We were saying, "What can we do for fun?" And I was like, "Why don't we do sesame oil?" That's how it happened and became something much larger than a small, collaborative project. And it's just been really fun because it's, again, learning about something completely new, which is not only CPG but another layer to it, which is like the whole cannabis layer. And it's been very interesting. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
You must want to do a whole product line, just knowing what I know about you.
Esther Choi:
Oh, you know I do. You know that's coming. I've been working on it for a long time, but it's a lot of work. Because I can't focus my full-time energy on it, it's just been slow moving. But I do have a line of gochujang and soy sauce, sesame oil…
Kerry Diamond:
In the works?
Esther Choi:
In the works. Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. I've loved seeing all the disruption in the different categories—the condiments and the oils and sauces and everything. It's so interesting.
Esther Choi:
It's so crazy. You see chili crisp and gochujang everywhere now. It's awesome. I love that.
Kerry Diamond:
How can people get Sessy?
Esther Choi:
They can order it directly on our website, sessyoil.com. Frankly, that's the only way you can get it at the moment because of the regulations of the infusion and all that. But soon, when it becomes legalized in New York, we're going to launch our THC line as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Very exciting. How do you take care of yourself mentally and physically, given all that you do?
Esther Choi:
I try, and I believe it's the effort that really counts because sometimes you get so into the zone that you're not even thinking about yourself. I really, really try to separate when I unwind, meaning if I'm not working, don't bother me. And my entire staff knows that you can't bother me if I'm off. I think it's really important when you're turning it off, you really turn it off all the way and really mentally prepare for whatever you're doing the next week. And when you're doing it, be all in.
When I'm on, I'm super on. I can do a million things at once. But when I'm off, it's like, are you going to talk to me about work? Because I'm not. I'm walking away. You have to be very mindful of that. And if not, it just comes bleeding into your personal life and it just gets really messy and super stressful. It's a very black-and-white thing, the switch button. And being good at that and intentional about it is the way to go.
Kerry Diamond:
And then mentally, what do you do to relax or de-stress?
Esther Choi:
Skincare routine for me is huge. Every night it's like clockwork. Every night and morning, taking the 15 minutes to go through my routine. To me, that's very, very important not only for my physical self, but even mentally. And it really does help relax you.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, you didn't tell us where the next Mökbar is going to be.
Esther Choi:
Oh, right. We have one in the works at Newark. It's the Penn station there.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wow.
Esther Choi:
Mm-hmm. Going back to Jersey roots. And it's actually my first location outside of New York City, so we're really excited but also really nervous about it, always. And then we have one in Riverdale, Maryland. It's going to be inside a food hall. And that one is licensed, so we're licensing our name. It's the first time we're not operating one of our locations. That's going to be also a new venture for us. Yeah, so two more locations opening in the next three months.
Kerry Diamond:
Very cool. Well Esther, thank you for all your time today. You are fascinating.
Esther Choi:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm very honored.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Esther Choi for joining me today. Definitely check out Iron Chef and get ready to cheer on Esther. If you are in NYC, visit Mökbar or Ms. Yoo. I might walk over to Mökbar in Midtown right now and get some lunch. If you enjoyed today's show, check out our past episodes with other Iron Chef superstars, including Dominique Crenn and Gabriela Cámara.
Thank you to Wild Planet and Whole Foods Market for supporting today's show. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe magazine. Sign up for our newsletter at cherrybomb.com. Our theme song is by the band, Tralala. Thank you, Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. And thank you to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You are the bombe.