Lucie Franc de Ferriere Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of four baking books, including “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes.” On each episode, I hang out with the sweetest bakers around and take a deep dive into their signature bakes.
Today's guest is Lucie Franc de Ferriere. Lucie is the founder and baker behind From Lucie Bakery in New York City. Lucie's been on the show before, and I am thrilled to have her back on to catch up. Lucie is a self-taught baker who started making cakes during the pandemic and quickly became known for her charming, whimsical cakes, topped with buttercream and festooned with fresh flowers. She grew up in the French countryside, and her childhood memories and love of nature constantly inspire her creations. She opened her brick-and-mortar in 2023, and it's an adorable shop in the East Village. They have whole cakes, cake slices, cookies, and more, and everything is just delicious. And Lucie is on the cover of the new cake issue of Cherry Bombe Magazine. It's a beautiful photo that features her outside From Lucie, holding a classic Lucie layer cake, the one we discuss in today's episode. Lucie joins me today to talk about her childhood in France, how she was more of an eater than a baker back then, about receiving her first stand mixer from her then boyfriend, now husband, as a gift, about how the pandemic made her realize how deeply she loved baking, and her upcoming book, “Cake From Lucie,” out next spring. She also walks me through her Salted Dark Chocolate Espresso Cake recipe, which is covered in a luscious buttercream, some of which has mini chocolate chips in it. Yum. It's a bestseller at the bakery and is seen in Lucie's arms on Lucie's Cherry Bombe cover. Lucie tells me how this cake is really the ultimate adult birthday cake. I loved catching up with Lucie, so stay tuned for our chat.
Today's episode is presented by King Arthur Baking Company. They're one of our go-to flours and baking resources with over 2,000 test kitchen-tested recipes, plus, virtual and on-demand classes. And this is the time of year we need it the most, holiday baking season. King Arthur has everything you need for your impressive holiday bakes, breads, and pies. I've got my eye on the cinnamon sugar donut muffins. If you want to win your cookie swap, check out their cookie survival guide with curated recipes, tips, and timelines. Or maybe you want to master the lattice on your apple pie, which you can learn in their on-demand classes. They just dropped so many new ones with everything from macarons to a show-stopping Bûche de Noël. You've been wanting to make one, so let this be your sign to do it this year. Oh, and the best part is, they even have a baker's hotline you can call for any of your baking questions. Seriously, any questions. Learn more at kingarthurbaking.com.
Today's episode is presented by California Prunes. I'm looking at a bunch of bananas on my counter right now, just waiting to be turned into my chocolate prune and crème fraîche banana bread. The prunes get deliciously soft and jammy as they bake, they're one of my favorite secret ingredients. They're also super good for you, which is a bonus. Did you know that prunes are packed with dietary fiber? Okay, yes, you probably did. But they also support bone health, which is extra important to me. And they're packed with vitamins and antioxidants, so much goodness. Whenever I am looking to add a little natural sweetness to something, from my morning smoothie to an oatmeal cookie, I know prunes will do just the trick. One of my favorite ways to use them is in my sticky toffee pudding snacking cake. Yes, I turned this beloved pudding into a snacking cake, and it's so good, peeps. I swap prunes in for the traditional dates, which adds a more intense fruitiness and aren't quite as sweet. The result is the perfect ratio of sweet, salty, and sticky, and it's so easy to assemble. Trust me, you'll want to make this dessert soon. If you're looking to add more prunes to your baking, know that they pair brilliantly with other deep, complex flavors, especially chocolate, or chop them up to use as you would any other dried fruit in your granola or cookies. It's hard to go wrong. For more info and creative recipes, check out the California Prunes website at californiaprunes.org. That's californiaprunes.org.
Cake lovers, did you see the new issue of Cherry Bombe Magazine? It's all about cake and features three incredible self-taught cake artists on the covers: Lucie Franc de Ferriere of From Lucie, Aimee France, AKA Yungkombucha420, and Amy Yip of Yip.Studio. All three discovered their passion for cake making and design out of necessity during the pandemic and transformed their hobbies into thriving careers. You'll love getting to know these women in our cover stories, written by Cherry Bombe founder, Kerry Diamond, and brought to life with beautiful photography by Sunny Shokrae. What else is in this issue? A bounty of delicious cake recipes, profiles of even more incredible cake artists, stories of nonprofits using cakes for a good cause, an inspiring bake sale, and so much more. To snag the mag, head to cherrybombe.com or find a copy at your local bookstore. You can find us in some great places across the country, like Kitchen Arts & Letters in Manhattan, Books are Magic in Brooklyn, Omnivore Books on Food in San Francisco, Book Larder in Seattle, Vivienne Culinary Books in Portland, Oregon, and Mama Bread in Nashville. For a full list of retailers, visit cherrybombe.com. Let's chat with today's guest.
Lucie, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie again, and to talk Salted Dark Chocolate Espresso Cake, your upcoming first cookbook, and so much more with you.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thanks for having me again.
Jessie Sheehan:
As we discussed the last time you were on the pod, and listeners, I highly recommend going back and giving our first chat a listen. You grew up in Bordeaux in the French countryside, where your dad ran a vineyard and your mom a B&B and a tearoom. Can you tell us a very early baked good eating memory, either something maybe that your mom baked, or going to a boulangerie or a patisserie with her?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh, yeah. So there's a memory that every Saturday after dance class, that I hated, my mom knew that the only way to keep me going to dance was to drive me to a boulangerie in Bergerac, and I would get a chocolate eclair, dark chocolate eclair every time. And she was like, "That's just the only way now my kid's going to keep going." So, that's my fun memory of every Saturday of my mom. And if I still feel like a little bit homesick or whatever, I usually go to Dominique Ansel and get the chocolate eclair there.
Jessie Sheehan:
I learned this time that you were actually a little more of an eater than a baker when you were little.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you have an early memory of baking, maybe with your mom?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes. The cake that she would let me help her with was the Victoria sponge that she made because it was a pretty easy one as well. Yet I would still be eating most of the batter versus actually making it, but that was a fun memory that we had because it was an easy one and she was just like, "Okay, you can do this while I do that." So, I felt a bit of a freedom to make my own cake, even though she was supervising, but that was the one cake that I remember baking with my mom and I loved it.
Jessie Sheehan:
I read this about you, which I love. It sounds so delicious. I read that you have a deep love of baguette with milk chocolate.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh, yeah. I actually talk a little bit about it in my cookbook that's coming out, but there's a whole section that's called goûter. And goûter, we call it a 4:00 PM snack for every child in France. And you come back from school and you usually have either a hot chocolate and then you'd have a baguette and you get your four or five chocolate pieces, so like a chocolate bar and you just push it in. So you usually remove the inside of the baguette. You eat it, of course, and then you put your chocolate instead in it, and then you just eat it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And it's like half a baguette usually, that you eat.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And for some reason, my mom was like, "Yeah, that's going to be your goûter every day."
Jessie Sheehan:
Why milk chocolate? Because I'd feel like you're a dark chocolate person. Is that right?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh, I'm a dark chocolate person now, but I feel like growing up, I still had that sweet tooth that a kid had. And I mean, the milk chocolate I had was not that sweet now I think about it, but it definitely brought in a bit more sweetness.
Jessie Sheehan:
Your mom was an exceptional baker and you've described her as your original baking teacher, but you were actually more of an eater of her bakes than you were a baker of them. I thought this was so interesting. You didn't actually really begin baking until you moved to New York City. Were you just not interested? Were you like, these are all delicious, yummy things and I love them, but I'm more interested in art or definitely not ballet, but art or something else that was sort of drawing you in a hobby kind of way?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I think there was also this sort of non-approachable feel to it just because she kind of did it when either I was at school or something else. So I never really, I don't know, I never felt very comfortable even wanting to do some. And it was already there, so then I was just like, I just have to eat it, I don't have to make it myself. I think if my mom wasn't as big of a baker, I would've probably started baking earlier because-
Jessie Sheehan:
Interesting.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... I still had that sweet tooth. But you're right, I was very into the arts and that's just my stubborn side. I was just like, this is what I'm going to do with my life. I want to be an art curator. I'm going to work for a museum or an art gallery. And so, I was just kind of very driven in that, to the point where I just had no real hobbies or anything on the outside.
Jessie Sheehan:
But when you were little, were you making art? Because there must have been outlets for your creativity when you were little, if you weren't in the kitchen putting beautiful flowers-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
For sure.
Jessie Sheehan:
... into your Victoria sponge.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And I think I was helping in the garden as well, but I was spending a lot of time drawing and painting and I used to do a few painting classes and stuff like that. So definitely, I would lock in and start drawing or painting and then five hours later my parents would be like, "Okay, you're taking a break." And I was like, "It's been five hours?"
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, wow.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And so, I like to lose myself in those kind of creative sides. And then I literally just wrote a children's book for my nephew that my sister just gave birth two weeks ago, so I just wrote a children's book that I drew for Christmas.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And again, it took me three days, but I just locked in for three days and my team was like, "Hey, we need you." And I was like, "Sorry, I'm so busy."
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, sorry. I'm a children's book author now.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So, I've always had that feeling of being creative and locking in, and that's where I think I like baking because it's so precise and you just have to focus and do one task, and then you get to be creative with the decoration and everything as well. So, that kind of drew into that whole art world that I used to work in.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. We'll be right back.
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Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. This is Kerry Diamond, host of Radio Cherry Bombe, here with some housekeeping. This is for all our friends in and around Charleston, one of my favorite places to visit, and eat, and walk around, all the things. Cherry Bombe has teamed up with the Visa Dining Collection by OpenTable and Visa to present a new event series: Working Lunch: Tastemakers at the Table. Each stop in the series has included a delicious chef-driven lunch, meaningful networking, and a panel conversation with some of the city's top culinary talent. Our final stop is Charleston on Thursday, December 11th, this Thursday, at Brasserie La Banque. We'll get to hear from Brasserie's Vonda Freeman, Jillian Schaffer from FIG, and Corrie Wong of Jackrabbit Filly and King BBQ. Access to all Working Lunch experiences is available for eligible Visa credit card holders, and tickets are on sale now. Terms and conditions apply. Visit cherrybombe.com for all the details. You can also find the link in our show notes. I hope to see you in Charleston.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now, back to our guest.
You received your master's degree in art history in the U.K., and you actually came to the U.S. because you received an internship at an art gallery prior to the pandemic. And I thought this was so interesting, but it was really while working at the internship and before the pandemic, that you purchased your first stand mixer, which is so fortuitous.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's just crazy. And was this the beginning, like was the stand mixer the beginning of you baking since you hadn't really done it in France?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I will say that's when I realized after a year and a half in New York, I was like, wait, so people don't come home and have cakes already ready every day? I was on the phone and my mom was like, "Well, I really miss your cakes now." And I would go to two different cake shops, but they were always a little too sweet for me, especially with the icing on top. And I was just like, that just doesn't remind me of my mom's cakes. So I was like, I really want to start making her recipes, and that's when my husband, Gurpreet, who at the time was my boyfriend of not even a year, at my birthday bought me a stand mixer. And I remember coming back to the apartment, there was a huge box in front of the apartment and he was hiding in the back and I opened it. It was like this big stand mixer and I was like, I guess there's no going back. I have to really do this now.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, what a good husband.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Because I kept bothering him about it. I was like, "I'm missing my mom's Guinness cake. I'm missing this and that." And he was like, "Okay, well, just make it yourself." And I was like, "I don't have a stand mixer." And so, he got me that. And then I remember with a friend and we were joking because I was still an intern and I was like, "I don't have the budget to buy the flour, the sugar, everything, every day." And she was like, "Let's call you baker on a budget." So I started as a little baker on a budget and I would make cake for my team and I would bring them to work. And my colleague, Loretta, was always like, "Oh my God, Lucie, you have to feed other people. I can't keep eating like this every day."
Jessie Sheehan:
That's like my husband, he gets so mad at me.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, and that's when I was like, okay, maybe I should really start spreading the word and giving it to other people.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, I just love that it all happened in New York City, in your apartment, with your then boyfriend. Yeah.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And it was very much just for us initially. And then that's when I started making it more and more and I was giving it away and people were like, "Oh my God, this banana bread's actually really good." And I called my mom and I was like, "Mom, what's that recipe that you used to make?" You know?
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, love, love.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Jessie Sheehan:
So after getting laid off due to the pandemic, you did start baking sweets professionally for your husband's cafe. And at some point, I guess when you were wondering about your next professional move, you asked yourself, "What is it that I love doing?" And the answer was baking. Was your mom surprised when you said, "I think I'm going to pursue baking," she was like, "Is this my daughter?"
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I really do think she's really proud now, but she was definitely a bit like, "Okay, this is very different from what I expected." But she also knows that we're very similar, so she wasn't shocked. But some of my friends are still like, "So, when are you going back to the art world?" And I was like, "I literally have a physical bakery. What else do you need for me to prove to you?" But that's very French of them to be like, "Well, you didn't study. You didn't go to pastry school, so you can't be." And I was like, "No, you can. With a lot of sweat, you can learn."
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it, I love it. And then you did start doing pop-ups after your baked goods became more popular at Sunday to Sunday. And was that because you were eager to showcase cakes, which you couldn't showcase as well at the cafe, or also just because it was exciting and people were responding to cookies and banana bread and you wanted to share them?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, you're right. I think I was doing a lot of... I was doing cinnamon rolls. I was having so much fun, but I really wanted to make cakes, and so I started making cakes, pre-orders for Christmas at the time, so people at Sunday to Sunday, but there was four or five people that they don't come there for a cake for Christmas. I had this one customer who was just buying my carrot muffin every single day, and she was the one who was like, "Hey, could you actually make this muffin into a cake?" So I changed my recipe a little bit and it became my carrot cake that people love now because of that customer who forced me.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I love.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And then I was like, okay, you know what? I really want to make cakes. And Daniel, who owns Alimentari Flâneur, I don't know if you-
Jessie Sheehan:
Mm-hmm.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
He used to have a shop in Essex Market at the time, which produced a ton of different fresh lettuce and tomatoes and everything. And he was like, "Oh, I'm seeing this idea of you making your cakes there." And that's when I was thinking of, it's going to be hard to slice them for people, I should be making mini cakes so it's easier and it's a bit more individual. And so, I really started making my mini cakes and put flowers on it for that one pop-up I did with him. That's the first time I put a flower on a cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Because I was going to ask if that's where your decorating style was born.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, but it really was just kind of, again, in the moment. I'm not really planned on anything so I was like, “Oh, let's just add a little flower on it,” and then that's where it started.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I loved reading that you do say people are constantly calling you and your baked goods whimsical and you love that because you are somebody who operates via whimsy.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, and I'm a very lucky person, so yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
We are also lucky that you answered that question to yourself: “Baking, this is what I really want to do.” And that, then From Lucie, the bakery, opened in 2023. I read something that I thought was interesting. When you first opened it, you didn't expect it to be like a slice of cake shop. You thought people would buy whole cakes and maybe a cookie?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Mm-hmm, and it was mostly because I was already doing pre-orders at Sunday to Sunday so people would come and pick up their birthday cakes, but I didn't have enough space because I was sharing the oven with the cooks from Sunday to Sunday and I was like, I need to make a vegan cake and they're making bacon. I was like, this is not working out. And they kept opening the oven, I was like, "You can't open the oven while I'm baking." So I was like, okay, we need to find a space that's just for the cakes. And so I was just like, we're going to do the exact same thing that we're doing here, but in an actual physical space for the bakery. So it was just going to be pre-order of birthdays and weddings, but then I was like, why not have a little bit of cakes at the front in case someone who comes and pick up their birthday cake also want a cookie or something that day? But then that just changed very quickly.
And then I think it was interesting because I remember for the opening day, I was like, we're going to make a few mini cakes, a few this, a few that. I don't know how many people are going to show up because it was January, it was snowing that day, but then The New York Times decided to write about the opening as well, which helped tremendously, but then it was way too many people when I was like, I don't know what to do.
Jessie Sheehan:
The shop has been open for two years in January. Tell us about, how do you feel like it's transformed in its second year?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh, it changes every day, which I really like about it. But I would say we feel even more comfortable now. I think the team, it's such a small space, so everyone needs to work very efficiently. But the team I think likes it as well because everyone's very close and everything is also close to you, so you don't have to walk super far to go and get a bowl or anything, everything's above you, or... So it's actually helpful in a way, but at the same time, you have to be very organized because if you have wedding cakes on a Saturday when you also have a line out the door of people want regular cakes, but you also have birthday cakes and you have an event that day, it takes a whole village to piece everything together. So we have everything in the back on a sheet saying from 9:00 to 10:00 we're decorating these cakes, from 10:00 to 11:00 you're doing this, you're going on a break at this time. So my managers are incredible for that, because I wouldn't have been able to do that.
Jessie Sheehan:
A couple of things at the bakery I wanted you to tell us about, the almond croissant cookie that's on the menu. Can you tell us about that?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know, I'm very excited about that one. I mean, I'm obsessed with almond croissant and I was like, I don't know how to bake bread and I'm not even trying to do that, but I was like, I kind of want to eat one every day. And then people have been loving the chocolate chip cookie and I was like, oh, why not? I've been wanting to do a second cookie for a while and I was like, "What should I do? What should I do?" And a lot of my team were like, "Oh, we should make an almond cookie or something." I was like, "Wait." So I know what aha-moment, I was like, "We should make an almond croissant cookie where you have a little filling in the middle."
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And so, we make our own frangipane, and we just have it in the middle as a little bubble. It's the same base as our chocolate chip cookie, so it's like that same brown sugar that we make, it's just we add an extract instead of vanilla extract in it. And then we make a frangipane, and so we put the frangipane dough in the middle and then put the cookie around it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Almost like roll it into a ball?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. And then when you bake it, the cookie kind of relaxes, but the frangipane stays in the middle. And then we put fresh slices of almonds and a dusting of icing and sugar.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, it looks so beautiful.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So it looks the same.
Jessie Sheehan:
I must have seen it on Instagram. I love it.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
You have to come and try it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to. And then also the carrot cake, it's your favorite, yes?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. I love it. I mean, it stays moist for like three, four days. It almost gets bitter over time. I don't know, maybe the cinnamon, anything in it that just grows a little bit more, like the scent of it. So the flavors just deepen, but I don't know, I think it's just a comforting cake. You know?
Jessie Sheehan:
Is it an oil-based cake?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, it's an oil-based cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I feel like with oil-based cakes, they always get better with age. Oil-based cakes are so moist and-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So nice.
Jessie Sheehan:
So almost all loaf cakes will taste better on day two or even day three. So interesting.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, and it mixes better even with the cream that you make on top. No, I love that cake, and I don't put any nuts in it just because my husband is allergic to walnuts. So I was like, you know what? I'll just remove the nuts and honestly, now people buy even more because you have so many people who are allergic to that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to also say that your Christmas orders will be open soon at the bakery. Yes? And people should be checking out your Instagram to see when they go live?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, and I'll post a few pictures as well so you can see what they'd get.
Jessie Sheehan:
All right. Now I want to talk about the new book, which everyone can pre-order right now. It's called “Cake From Lucie: Recipes and Techniques from the French Countryside to New York City.” Comes out in the middle of April on the 16th. Clarkson Potter is your publisher. Who was your editor?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Susan Roxborough.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, nice. Nice.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
She's amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
And did you have help writing it? Did you write it?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. I had the amazing Lauren who helped me write it because I didn't really realize that people quit their job to write a book.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, gosh. Yeah, you can't do both.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And I decided to write it, I think the first year I opened the bakeries when I started, which was the peak of me being like, what am I doing? And writing a book on top was impossible. So, I really thank Lauren for all her patience. And-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Would she shadow you in the bakery to see how things were done, or more at home?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, no, because I already had the recipes as well. And the worst part is, most recipes were scaled to a bakery level so that was a lot of work to scale them back to being a home baker. But I had most of my recipes already done. She was a tester for half of the recipes as well, so she made most of the recipes, which was pretty special because she really got to understand a recipe before even writing it, which I think is important.
Jessie Sheehan:
And would she also be the one who scaled it for you?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
She started by doing that and then she was like, "Lucie, this is insane." So then I did it myself with my team.
Jessie Sheehan:
You guys are better at doing it.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, and I was like, I know this recipe as well because some of them used to be in my mother's, so I used to have them in normal scale. So, it was good fun though.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, and I love that you write, it's for enthusiastic home bakers, because to me that seems to include both novices and experts. All you need is enthusiasm. Tell us about the book.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I'm very proud of this book just because it brings out that whole journey that I've had in the last few years of getting to really know the way of baking in itself because it's such an art as well. So, I'm really going through all those moments of failure and then being like, okay, now I know exactly how to do this and why to do this. So I'm kind of teaching, I have all those how-to's as well, like how to make Swiss merengue buttercream the way I like it, not necessarily how everyone else does it, but how I did it and how I learned to do it, or how to infuse butter the way I like it.
So, I'm really guiding people through my journey so they feel a little bit more accessible as well, because I know that baking can be very scary for certain people, because it's so scientific. So, I just really wanted to make it feel a bit more fun and playful and accessible. And so, I think a lot of the flavors that I have in as well are a little different or they're spins on classic French recipes as well. I hope people really appreciate that.
And there's this whole aspect of the photography as well, that I work really closely with a friend of mine called Lucia Bell-Epstein, who's an incredible photographer. And I was able to convince Clarkson Potter to shoot all the lifestyle on film, which is pretty rare. And I think it turned out beautifully, because we went all the way to my home in France as well to shoot most of that. And then I worked with incredible food and prop stylists. It felt like a small family going together and it was good that Lucia came to my home first so she really knew my family, knew my story, and then we shot all the recipes or most of the recipes in studio in New York, but at that point, there was that whole feeling behind and she knew what we were shooting.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, and you already had a mood and a feel for the photos because you'd taken them in France-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
... and then you could just sort of mimic that in the studio. I also read that while you guys were in France, there was no prop stylist, no food stylist, you and your mom, I assume, making everything?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah. My mom was making a few things when she had time, but she was busy too-
Jessie Sheehan:
She was busy, yeah.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... because it was busy season, so it was just Lucia and I. We had the schedule, I think it was six or eight days, and initially we just had written all those recipes. But then I was like, wait, I have to make the recipes and also shoot the other recipe and go to the village to take a picture. But it was so fun.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, it was exhausting, but it was actually, I think, the best way of doing it as well, because there was no one else, it was just us and being super creative in the moment. But also because I had never written a book, I didn't really know what a food stylist or prop stylist... The amount of work they did.
Jessie Sheehan:
You didn't, you were missing them.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, which is good, because now I'd be like, okay, maybe I would bring someone a...
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Now let's talk about your Salted Dark Chocolate Espresso Cake. I love that you call it like an adult version of a children's birthday cake. Classic French chocolate cake with this salted dark chocolate espresso buttercream, and it's a classic at the bakery, yes?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Very, very popular.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
That and the carrot cake, they're both, they're twinning.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, those are the two. And also it's the cake, which I love, that you're holding on the cover of Cherry Bombe Magazine.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes, you're right.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that, I love all the synergy. All right. So for the cake, we're going to heat the oven to 350 degrees. We'll have a rack in the middle. And then we're going to spray or we can brush the bottom and sides of two 9-by-13-inch baking pans with canola oil. The 9 by 13-inch pans, are they like quarter sheet pans with really short sides or should we picture like a brownie pan that we might have at home with like a two-inch side?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, very short sides. Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
The short sides, like a quarter-inch pan?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we have two of those, and then we're going to line the bottoms, but not the sides, probably because they're so short.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Not the sides, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Line the bottoms with parchment paper. In a small bowl, I'm sure at the bakery it's metal, but at home, would you use like a small glass bowl, a small metal bowl?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, a ceramic bowl.
Jessie Sheehan:
Anything?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay. In a small bowl, we're going to combine some instant coffee and some boiling water. And I had a couple of questions because you do say because the cake is going to call for instant coffee, but the frosting's going to call for espresso powder or instant espresso powder that you mix with boiling water. And so, you say you can use either. Do you prefer the cake with something a little more mild, like an instant coffee than putting the espresso powder in it?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yes, because the whole point of the instant coffee in the cake is to bring out the flavor of the cocoa. Whereas espresso will overpower that, was like the buttercream is with real chocolate and the espresso, I like the bitterness of it. So, it just has different-
Jessie Sheehan:
Purposes.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Purposes, exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, and is there a brand of instant coffee that you like?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I'm not a coffee drinker, which is really funny as well.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, right, you like tea.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, I'm obsessed with tea.
Jessie Sheehan:
Earl Grey tea.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Obsessed with tea. So to me, coffee is just a bit similar. Oh my gosh, my husband would hate me for that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. He loves coffee.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh yeah, he has a coffee shop.
Jessie Sheehan:
And a coffee shop, yeah. Yeah, you can't say that. So we're mixing together some instant coffee and some boiling water, stirring to dissolve, and then we want to chill it in the refrigerator. Are we trying to chill it till it's cold or just chill it-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Room temp.
Jessie Sheehan:
... till it's room temp?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we're going to sift some all-purpose flour, some Dutch-processed cocoa powder, baking soda, baking powder, medium bowl. I thought this was interesting. We sift all of those things together. And I guess one question is, do you always sift rather than just whisk?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, I always sift, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
You always sift. Love.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Do you not always sift? I'm actually curious.
Jessie Sheehan:
No, I will sift if I have cake flour and I'll sometimes sift if I have cocoa powder because both can be lumpy, but if it's just all-purpose flour for a recipe, for a cake recipe, I'll just whisk it.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
That's so interesting, but I heard, especially, well, it's more for butter cakes, but if you don't have the cake flour, you want to sift it three times to get that.
Jessie Sheehan:
You don't, do sift three times?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I used to at home, but now my team is just like, "We're not doing that." And I was like, "You're right, you're right." And honestly, I haven't seen much of a difference, so.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that would be the thing. I would have to try for myself at home. Am I seeing a difference if I sift a lot versus what I'm doing, which just whisks it.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And I think it's really more for those cakes that you want them to be very fluffy and light, and the butter component's important. Which I think an oil base is not as important.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, also like an angel food cake, of course, I would sift because I want that lightness. So we've sifted our flour, our cocoa powder. You add fine sea salt. And I wanted to ask, do you ever use kosher, or you're a fine sea salt person?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Fine sea salt, but I use some kosher salt sometimes as well, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I thought it was interesting that you add the salt after you sift the rest of the ingredients. Do you not want to sift the salt?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Well, it doesn't go through. It always stays, so.
Jessie Sheehan:
Ah, because... yep, yep. So you just add it later and then just whisk that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we'll do this in a glass or a metal bowl?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Mm-hmm.
Jessie Sheehan:
So once we add the salt, we'll whisk our sifted ingredients.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, and set it aside.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yep, and then we'll combine some buttermilk and sour cream, which I love the idea of both. Why are we using both?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Because both bring different strength to it as well. And I think too much of one is actually not great in terms of flavor. I was like, this is actually the perfect balance.
Jessie Sheehan:
And we're going to whisk those together.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, and then bring that moistness as well to the cake, because you also use a lot of hot water in it as well, so bringing in that moistness so it doesn't dry out is super important.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is there a particular whisk that you love or are we using, I'm sure-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I'm using the huge.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Humongous whisk, of course, of course. At home, you can use whatever you want, peeps. Don't get scared. So then in the stand mixer fitted with the paddle attachment, we're going to beat some granulated sugar and some more canola oil on medium speed until the mixture looks like wet sand, about 30 seconds. Then we'll scrape down the bottoms and sides of the bowls. You give a lot of scraping instructions too, so good.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Because it never hits the bottom.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, I was just going to say, also, if you're in the bakery, you're probably using a big Hobart, and the bottom has that big nipple-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yep, you need it.
Jessie Sheehan:
... and everything gets stuck. I remember that was one of the first things I learned in the bakery about the nipple.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Oh, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we'll scrape down the bottom and sides of the bowl with a flexible spatula. We'll add eggs one at a time, beating and scraping before each addition, and then again at the end until fully incorporated. I love all of your beating and scraping instructions, all through you give them.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's pretty specific.
Jessie Sheehan:
I'm the same way, I'm like that too. I really appreciate those kinds of instructions. Now we're going to add vanilla and I think I learned your favorite brand is Heilala?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, who's from New Zealand.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, nice.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And she's amazing, and she's really lovely.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to add some Heilala vanilla and we're going to beat until incorporated, about 30 seconds, then we'll scrape the bowl again. And then on low speed, we're going to add our flour mixture in four batches, alternating with our buttermilk sour cream mixture in three batches, and scraping our bowl before each addition.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
And mixing just until no streaks, but we don't want to over-mix. That was on low speed, okay. So on that same low speed, we're going to add our cooled instant coffee mixture and then mix for 30 seconds more, scrape the bowl one final time. The batter will be very dark in color and quite thin.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's very liquidy, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to carefully divide the batter evenly between those two prepared pans. Bake for about 15 minutes. Are the pans very full of batter? Are we very careful as we're getting-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, be very, very steady.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. So we'll bake for about 15 minutes, then we'll quickly rotate the pans and then we'll bake until the cakes spring back when they're lightly pressed or when a skewer inserted in the center comes out clean. I always like to look for a moist crumb. I'm so conditioned now if the toothpick or the skewer is clean, I'm like, "Oh no, it's over-baked."
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know, you're right. I think, especially with this cake as well, it's like you have that moist crumb, but you don't have the whole batter coming out.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes, exactly.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And that's where it's interesting because I was going to use that language, but I was like, this can be confusing as well.
Jessie Sheehan:
It's hard to know how to get it right.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's hard to know.
Jessie Sheehan:
Hopefully, if people are following your time as best they can, because we all know that you can't always just follow time, because everybody's oven is different.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And that's why I put rotating as well, because some ovens obviously are baking when the temperature is coming more from the back. And so, especially for a sheet cake and that liquid of a sheet cake, if you have a fan that's heavy on one side, it's pushing the batter and then you have a lopsided cake. Honestly, at the bakery now, we're lucky because there's a whole airflow and it's a Rolls-Royce of ovens because my oven in East Village when I first started literally was burning on the left side, under-baked on the right side.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, it's horrible.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It was a whole Tetris game to do.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Just to rotate it just a little bit, just a little bit.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And then I heard so many horror stories of people's ovens. I was like, you know what? I'm just going to have it rotate.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think those are really good instructions.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And if people don't want to do that and they know how to bake.
Jessie Sheehan:
They don't have to.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
They're not bothered.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, you won't yell at them.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
But I'd rather put it there in case.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yes. So we're going to then bake for about 15 to 20 minutes more. When it's done, the cake will be soft and fluffy.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And all sticky, exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
That top will be a little bit sticky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then we're going to let the cakes cool in their pan on a wire rack for about 30 minutes, then we'll carefully run a small offset between the edges of the pans and the cake and then flip the pans onto racks, tapping first to make sure the cakes release, peel off the parchment paper, and we'll use a second rack or large platter to flip the cakes so they're right side up on the rack. Let cool completely. So just a question about the format of this cake. Do you ever make it in a round eight-inch cake pan?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
At the bakery, actually we sell it as a birthday cake.
Jessie Sheehan:
Ah, in that shape.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
In that shape, also in the quarter sheet, and in the half sheet. I think one thing with the book, people really like the carrot cake and they really like the chocolate cake. So, it was me having to sacrifice one of the... I wanted one in that shape and one in another shape. Growing up, I feel like if I was 10 years old, I'd have 20 friends over for my birthday and I feel like a sheet cake was kind of-
Jessie Sheehan:
Perfect.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... a good birthday cake. And I was like, that is probably what kids are going to want more. So I was like, that one can be a quarter sheet and the other one half.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. I feel like it's also a funny thing about writing a cookbook that not everybody realizes, but you sometimes have to be creative in the way that you format the recipes. Like if you're doing a lot of cakes, they have to look different. And sometimes there won't be a reason that it was a sheet. It's like, oh, it had to be different from carrot.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, so I just had to change it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I love that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And the decoration too.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So, now we're going to make the buttercream. So in a small bowl, we're going to combine, now it's going to be instant espresso powder. Is there a particular brand or no?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, not necessarily. We actually use espresso from the bakery in itself, we roast our own coffee at Sunday to Sunday, my husband's cafe. And so, I use that one, which has a nice, strong, nutty flavor. You know I don't like coffee, I just know it does. And so I was like, that would be perfect. So we just do a little shot of that and then put it in.
Jessie Sheehan:
So if you have an espresso maker at home, peeps, you can do that too. So we're going to combine the instant espresso powder and some boiling water, stir to dissolve. Again, placing in the refrigerator just to cool to room temperature. We're going to fill a medium saucepan with about an inch of water, bring that to a simmer over medium-low heat, and then add 72% dark chocolate. Brand of chocolate that you love?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I mean, I like Valrhona. It's my favorite.
Jessie Sheehan:
72% dark chocolate. We'll add that into a large heatproof bowl, set the bowl over the pan of simmering water, and make sure the water does not touch the bottom of the bowl. So we're making a water bath. I mean, not a water bath. What's the expression?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Bain marie.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're making a bain marie. Then we're going to warm the chocolate, we're going to stir it. What tool would you use? Would you have a spatula?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I usually do a spatula, actually.
Jessie Sheehan:
Spatula.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Like a rubber spatula because it's nice and I think easy for the chocolate to run off.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. You can scrape the sides nicely. Warm the chocolate, stirring with a flexible spatula occasionally until the chocolate's melted. Remove the bowl from the pan, carefully, because it will be warm, and use a clean kitchen towel to carefully wipe condensation from the bottom of the bowl and we'll set that aside to cool. Now we'll sift some powdered sugar and more Dutch-processed cocoa powder into a large bowl. In a stand mixer fitted with the paddle, we'll beat cubed, unsalted room temperature butter. Brand of butter that you like?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Kerrygold.
Jessie Sheehan:
Kerrygold. In a stand mixer fitted with the paddle, you'll add cubed Kerrygold butter, unsalted, on medium-high speed until pale and fluffy, about three minutes. Then we'll add that powdered sugar, cocoa powder mixture in four batches, mixing on low so it doesn't explode in our face.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
We've all been there.
Jessie Sheehan:
Scraping the bowl between each of those four additions until completely incorporated. And I love all of your little tips about what it's going to look like or what it's going to feel like. You say it'll be Play-Doh, look like Play-Doh, or feel like-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's not the most professional description but it does the job.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, but it's so good, it's so good. And it'll be very thick. I think that's great, and also the way you told us that the cake batter will be very thin because those are the kinds of things that do surprise home cooks and readers and just like, just a minute, this looks wrong.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And especially nowadays, when you're used to seeing a lot of videos and recipes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, because people are so visual.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly. It's important.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, that's a really good point. So now we'll beat on medium speed until smooth, about 30 seconds more. We're going to add sour cream to the cooled chocolate. It's almost like a ganache in a way, except it's not heavy cream and we're not adding it when the chocolate is super-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
That's why I was like I can't call it a chocolate ganache, but it's definitely, it's inspired from a ganache recipe.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And I like, let's make it into a fluffy frosting.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, love that. So we'll add some sour cream to the cooled chocolate, stir to completely combine, again probably with the rubber spatula?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, the same one.
Jessie Sheehan:
And then we will add to that butter mixture and beat on medium speed for 30 seconds, increase the speed to high, beat until pale, and probably won't pale too much because we have chocolate in there, but.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
But it still is, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
It lightens, right?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I can picture it in my mind's eye.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
The more you beat it, the more it's going to lighten too.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. It lightens in color, it's fluffy, about two minutes, we'll scrape the bowl. Now we'll add the cooled espresso. And I thought this was interesting. And now we add the salt. I feel like a lot of people would've added the salt with the cocoa powder and the powdered sugar.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It's more, I think it started also because I would try it first. I just want to make sure it can live without the salt. And then I'm like, oh, I would add a bit of salt. So I think it's just me being me and I was like, I'm going to add it at the end of recipe.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's so smart.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
But I think I always recommend someone to try something without salt first because it depends on your palate as well. I know my palate is very different from my husband's, who needs way more salt than I do. And so I like to try something without salt and then just adding at the end.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. It's like a little window into your process.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And then we'll beat until smooth, lightens in color more, about three minutes. Now we'll add some Maldon sea salt. Why the two different kinds?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Fine salt just brings out a little bit more of the flavor, and I think it cuts slightly the icing sugar, so it brings out more of the chocolate. Does its job there, but then it is a dark salted espresso.
Jessie Sheehan:
Salted.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Salted buttercream, so I was like, I need that feeling of salt in it that's not just helping the chocolate, it's actually shining on itself. And I love Maldon salt. So I was like, I'm just going to sprinkle that at the end as well.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love that. So we'll add the Maldon salt, we'll beat on medium-high speed just until fully incorporated, about 15 seconds. We'll scoop three-quarters of the frosting into a large bowl and set that aside. And I love this little addition. We're going to add mini chocolate chips to the stand mixer and briefly just to incorporate the chips into the frosting. I love the idea of it's the same frosting, but there's a different texture in the one in the center. I love that. So now the frosting might be slightly soft. We'll cover both portions, refrigerate for 30 minutes to firm up. Then, when ready to assemble the cake, we'll let the buttercream sit at room temp until spreadable, about 15 minutes. As I just said, the chocolate chip buttercream will be used between the cake layers.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
To make your life easier, just do one big buttercream with all the chocolate chips in it and then you just do an exposed style cake. It's just if you want to fully cover your cake with chocolate chips, it's going to rip the cake, so that's enough.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the reason. No, I like that. So the chocolate chip buttercream, it needs to be stiff to hold its shape when we're stacking the second cake layer on top. You mentioned that we'll need some muscle when we're piping. So we're going to place a cake layer on a large platter or board. We're going to put two to three cups of the chocolate chip buttercream into a piping bag fitted with a plain round tip, half-inch diameter. And you say you need a pastry tip with an opening large enough to let those mini chocolate chips through. Is there a brand of pastry tip or pastry bags that you guys are using?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
The bags, not specifically, but tips. I have specific tips that I actually buy at New York Cake. So, it's all the ones that they sell over there, and that's where I buy them from. I think it starts with an E?
Jessie Sheehan:
Ateco?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Ateco or something like that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, something like that.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Those are the ones I use. A lot of times I just cut my piping bag to the portion I want and I just use the piping bag. If you want the perfect round circle at home and it just feels a little safer, you use that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, I think it's Ateco.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
But I started with no tools, so be creative.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, a Ziploc bag.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
So, holding the pastry tip about an inch above the cake and starting about a quarter inch from the edge, we'll pipe a rounded line of buttercream around the perimeter. And then I love that you tell us this. We're going to then pipe zigzags of buttercream in the middle of the cake so it's completely covered and then spread it with a small offset to fill in any gaps. I feel like that's a good tip because people who don't know how to decorate cakes don't exactly know. I would probably just plop.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I know. And I feel especially with that cake that's a little sticky, then you don't want your cake to rip while you do that.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, so the zigzags made are brilliant.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
And I tell that actually a lot in my cake decorating classes to people. I always want them to think of, you remember that game that you used to play growing up on that small phone and it was called like the snake or the snake was eating something and it would keep growing? I was like, "That's what I want you to think about." So you start with being a small snake and then you just keep growing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Keep going.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Then trying to fill the holes, and then you can easily spread it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right, that makes a lot of sense. I'm so impatient and I'm always trying to skip steps. I'd probably be like, "Oh, I'll just plop," but it's so smart to know.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
To just, yeah. And I'm so quick at it now, too that-
Jessie Sheehan:
That, yeah.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... it just makes your life easier.
Jessie Sheehan:
Totally. As we're spreading those zigzags, we'll make sure that they connect with the buttercream perimeter-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
... so the entire thing is covered. Then we'll carefully place the second cake layer flat side up, so we'll be flipping it-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Flipped it, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
... on top. And then I love this verb. We'll gently wiggle it into the buttercream. I love that, Lucie.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
To make sure it doesn't move.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I love it. Then we'll empty the piping bag and fill it with the chip-free buttercream, pipe zigzags of buttercream to completely cover the top of the cake, use a small offset to spread it evenly across the top and down the sides so it's completely covered. And then we'll use a large metal spatula or bench scraper to gently press against the sides of the cake to smooth the buttercream into this thin, even crumb coat layer to completely cover the outside of the cake. Metal spatula. What should I picture? With a handle?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No, no. It's not like this large. I'm really bad with inches. It's this big.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, so like six?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
So, it's not that large.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, so it's kind of shaped like a bench scraper?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, it is a binge scraper. It is a bench scraper that we use, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I think metal ones and the plastic ones are not as sturdy, yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Right. The flexible ones are best for scraping that nipple we talked about.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly, exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
But that's your sort of tool for getting that crumb coat?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yep.
Jessie Sheehan:
With a cake like this, since it's a funny shape, you don't have it on a cake stand. You're not twirling it, or are you?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
I actually am. Yeah, I am.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah. Oh, cool.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, it makes it easier. I mean, sometimes if the cake stand is busy at the bakery, I just do it without, but in an ideal world-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, but that can be nice.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, it makes my life easier.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so this is the crumb coat and I love this note that you give us. We should be able to see some of the cake underneath. That's how we know it's thin enough.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
We'll put the cake in the refrigerator for 15 minutes to firm up. Okay, I have to ask because I always do this. Do you ever skip the crumb coat?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Yeah, of course I do.
Jessie Sheehan:
Okay, good.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It depends on what kind of cake it is. If it is a butter-based cake, I think it just loses a bit too much of the... the sponge itself.
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, it loses moisture.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
It does crumb a little bit more. And also, if I use Swiss merengue buttercream, it's a little bit more see-through, so if I don't have the crumb coat, actually you can still see the cake underneath no matter how much I put on top. So that one I have to, but when it comes especially if you do chocolate, you can skip that.
Jessie Sheehan:
You heard it here, you heard it here first. So now using a rubber spatula, we're going to put a large dollop of chip-free buttercream on top of the cake, use a small offset to spread it evenly, pushing any excess towards the edge of the cake. At this point, we no longer need to do our zigzags. Now we can dollop. Towards the edges of the cake, we'll add more buttercream to the edges of the cake as needed, and use a small offset to smooth the buttercream into an even layer on top and sides. The cake, I'm just picturing it in my mind's eye. So it's the big sheet cake, but it's completely covered.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Exactly.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're not going to be able to see the layers.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
And now we'll transfer the remaining chip-free buttercream to a piping bag fitted with a small star tip and pipe uneven swirls of buttercream. Describe to us what an uneven swirl is. What do you mean?
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
That's when the word whimsical comes back again. When I first tried to do something like that, and I've always said I'm terrible at the specific piping that looks gorgeous and perfect. I just like, I can't do it. So I like to lean in the opposite way always. And I'm like, actually, let's have fun with this and let's be playful. And so instead of having just the same size piping all around the cake, I was like, let's try and have it drip down. So, some are way longer than others and some are a bit more on the front and some are a bit more on the sides, and I really leaned into that playfulness of it. And especially if it's like that sort of, the chocolate cake that's supposed to remind you of your childhood birthday cake, you want to have that sort of whimsical-
Jessie Sheehan:
Yeah, that playful-
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
... playful side to it.
Jessie Sheehan:
100%. So uneven swirls of buttercream along the top and bottom edges of the cake. And if desired, we can pipe additional crisscross decorations on the sides of the cake.
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Lucie. And I just want to say that you are my cherry pie.
Lucie Franc de Ferriere:
Thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun, as always.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to King Arthur, California Prunes, and Diamond of California Nuts for supporting our show. Don't forget to follow She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and tell your pals about us. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie and happy baking.