Robin Standefer and Marie-Aude Rose Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi everyone. You're listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstands Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Each week we talk to the coolest culinary personalities around the folk shaping and shaking up the food scene. Joining me in the studio today are Robin Standefer and Marie-Aude Rose. Two people I adore and not just because they're the forces behind La Mercerie, one of my favorite restaurants and one of the most beautiful restaurants in New York City.
Robin is the co-founder of Roman and Williams, the New York based design studio and she's the co-founder of The Guild, a truly jaw dropping store featuring home goods and more, sourced from some of Roman and Williams' favorite artisans. The store happens to be attached to La Mercerie, the French restaurant helmed by Marie-Aude, who is the executive chef. In a fun twist, the plates, glasses and all the tabletop items at the restaurant are available right next door at The Guild.
La Mercerie is doing a special Sunday supper series dedicated to mothers. So Robin and Marie-Aude stopped by to tell us more and to share what they've been up to. This episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is supported by Käserei Champignon, a 100 year old cheese producer and the maker of Cambozola, this fine cheese which I happen to like very much is made with Bavarian Alpine milk and crafted by master cheesemakers dedicated to using all natural ingredients and traditional methods to create one of a kind cheeses.
Cambozola, a triple cream soft ripened cheese with delicate notes of blue is truly a cheese like no other. For a more intense experience, try Cambozola Black Label, aged longer and colder than Cambozola Classic. This bold and exceptionally creamy cheese was a 2022 best in class winner of the renowned world championship cheese contest. To celebrate 40 years in the US market, Cambozola is giving away three luxurious beach vacations up to $10,000 in value. Visit thisisfinecheese.com for more information and to enter. While you're there, you can find recipes, pairings and the stores near you that carry Cambozola.
Don't forget, it's not blue, it's not bri, it's Cambozola. Regarding the sweepstakes, there is no purchase necessary to enter. It ends December 31st, 2022 and is open to the legal residents of the 50 United States and Washington DC who are at least 21 years of age at time of entry. Subject to official rules available at cambozolasweeps.com. Void where prohibited.
If you are a bombesquad member, don't forget to RSVP for our May member meeting which is taking place this Wednesday May 18th on Zoom. Check your inbox for the RSVP link. If you're not a member, you can head to cherrybombe.com to become one. The contemporary cake artist Bronwen Wyatt of Bayou St. Cake will be joining us for a demo and conversation. And we'll have networking at the end. So be sure to stick around for that.
The member meeting is presented by California Prunes. So thank you to our prune pals. Visit californiaprunes.org to learn more about them. Now, let's check in with today's guests.
Robin, Marie-Aude, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Robin Standefer:
Thank you Kerry, nice to be here.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Hi. Thank you for having us.
Kerry Diamond:
First thing I would love to know is how you two met. Do you remember?
Robin Standefer:
We do.
Kerry Diamond:
Robin, your version?
Robin Standefer:
Stephen and I designed Le Coucou. We were in the restaurant working on details, eating, tasting, preparing, looking at all the elements of the restaurant coming together. And Marie was around and she was there. And she was there with her children. It was the first time I'd met her. She was talking about food and she was opining on some of the things that Daniel cooked. We just kind of got into this dialogue. And I think maybe I'm going to add this because I thought of this last night, Marie, I think you brought one of those amazing cookies. Those strange like shortbread cookies and I tasted it. You had the children and they were so sweet. And you started to talk about missing being in the kitchen.
It was one of those unbelievable, like eureka, organic moments. I think that maybe that day or maybe the next day, we walked down the block across Howard from Lafayette to Mercer. The guilt base was a city bank totally abandoned and miserable. But the bones were there. And I said, "Have a look at this," and she had the stroller and the kids. We walked into the bank and I said, "I think we're going to make this into a shop and a restaurant," and here we are.
Kerry Diamond:
Marie, tell us your connection to Le Coucou.
Marie-Aude Rose:
My husband, Daniel Rose, opened the restaurant, Le Coucou in 2016. We were living in Paris before that. And he met with Stephen Starr. Daniel has this idea and Stephen had the means. And so we decided we would move to New York with the family. We didn't know for how long, maybe for just the opening, maybe for a year, but we ended up staying longer. And as Robin said, we met in Le Coucou and I was always hanging out because I wasn't working. I was in the process of getting papers to get my green card. So I was mostly with the kids and Daniel was very busy. And so I would hang out in the restaurant a lot to be with his temporary family.
Kerry Diamond:
I love the idea of this working restaurant couple having restaurants within walking distance from each other. That's kind of a dream.
Marie-Aude Rose:
It's wonderful. And when we were living in Paris and Daniel had Spring, we were living above the restaurant. So, it was important to be really close and now being next to each other, it's wonderful. And also, our teams are close. So we support each other and that's really wonderful.
Robin Standefer:
Just as you're talking, it reminds me of Marie said, "I really want to get back into the kitchen," so matter of factly because when you're opening a restaurant, we were there 16 hours a day, and everybody's just tired and chipping in and doing what they have to get it done. And she said that and it really struck me. We had started this kind of friendship and this dialogue and this conversation. I said, "Well, talk to me about your history." Obviously, she had been in these incredible kitchens but hadn't really had one that was her own.
The spirit I hope, Kerry, I'm allowed to say this on a podcast now, I want to say it, which is that I always felt the spirit of The Guild kitchen was feminine. I never want to make that kind of proclamation. And obviously, I work with my husband. But we just thought, this is about that kind of a domesticity, of femininity that I wanted it to feel like a home. The way Marie talked about it was so organic and so confident to just walk down the street and I thought, "Okay, make it your home."
Kerry Diamond:
No, there is so much feminine energy there when you walk in, you can't help but feel that. So at that time, did you have the concept for the restaurant yet? Or the name? Or what did you have at that point?
Marie-Aude Rose:
No, not yet.
Robin Standefer:
We definitely didn't have the name. I'll tell you that story. We certainly had the concept for The Guild. And at that time, I have to tell you, it was early, the name wasn't The Guild. The name was center for goods, which is still our business name. And Stephen and I were like, that's a clunky weird name. But we were just trying to like our book at Rizzoli called Things We Made. We always start with this weird generic name. So we're like it's a center for goods or good or good things.
And then at a certain point, and I do think that this is relevant, because as we met Marie, and that it was a connection to our relationship at Le Coucou, we realized there were these like-minded people who wanted to make something really meaningful and knew we wanted to find a home for our furniture and for all these objects from around the world. There were all these artisans, especially in the food space. I mean, because we cook a lot and I was like, "Why can't you have beautiful things at your table and we were traveling a lot and seeing these objects."
We knew that we wanted to put a restaurant in the shop because furniture stores, they're a little stagnant and a home is not. And then also putting it in the front, there is no person, no investor, nobody we talked to that didn't say that was absolutely the stupidest idea that I had ever had. And we just, Stephen and I, were like, "No, you come in, we want the smells and the energy." And somehow, I just felt like Marie was an embodiment of somehow my previous visualization of the person you sort of saw first.
Doesn't work like that at a restaurant but in my head, and I think that you'll hear about the May Sunday dinner thing but it connects to this, because I was like okay, it's Marie's France, Marie's Kitchen. And we had different names. I mean, the first name was, I think, The Rose or Mazon Rose, right?
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes.
Robin Standefer:
And it was like, oh, that was their name. And it was like, oh, that's weird. And then we were together and Daniel and Marie really helped to really name it. A mercer of course, is someone who sews and then it was on Mercer Street. So these things happened in a really sort of familial organic way.
Kerry Diamond:
And that was not a loved corner in any way. When Robin brought you down there, Marie, did you see what she saw? Or did you just say yes?
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes. So, she was saying when we were at Le Coucou and she started and Stephen and her started talking about their vision, their idea for this place where it was just, I want to say, whimsical. I don't know if that's the right word. I just had sparkles in my eyes. The idea of going back in a kitchen and being able to run a team, lead a team, and express myself, in this environment, with their design, their attention to details, and everything that I care for, it seemed amazing.
Marie-Aude Rose:
So that corner, I knew it was going to be amazing. And being close to Daniel was also important. It was a new city for me. And I was just so happy to be in New York.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you have any trepidation about being a chef in New York City?
Marie-Aude Rose:
Not really, I'm not a very confident person but yeah, sometimes, I was a little scared, because it was my first job as a chef, just me, and not in my country. But I was surrounded by amazing people that I've never met people like that in France. I find working in the states truly elevating. And I feel supported all the time.
Robin Standefer:
This only really occurred to me kind of after we were in it. Not that many Parisian female chefs, and I started to say, oh, amazing, and she's really French. And I was like, oh, there's a lot of people who make French food in New York who aren't French. And in the country, that create this dream, this kind of icon of France that isn't France. And I think this is really relevant to what the food is at La Mercerie and to a guild sort of total fundamental philosophy was just authenticity. And the word is kind of overused maybe right now and in a brandy way, but I think that we discussed and I discussed with Stephen, what does authenticity mean to us?
Certainly saying, because it's not like there was a particular reason I wanted it to be French. Even in the beginning, we knew that there was something about this sense of Frenchness in the cafe and the brasserie. The confidence and ease of all day dining. And how there's no place on earth that does it, I don't think, like the French. And I hesitated with people who weren't French, because to me it was important. Frenchness made sense but we were so proud that Marie was coming from a tradition that was part of her true DNA. And I think it really shows in what we make at La Mercerie.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about the menu because the menu is fabulous. And it doesn't feel like so many French places, it's sort of like a time capsule menu could be 1960, could be 2022 for all you know. I don't feel that way when I go to La Mercerie. It feels very respectful of tradition, but feels fully yours and fully modern. How did you approach designing the menu?
Marie-Aude Rose:
When we opened, the idea was that it was going to be an all day, restaurant café. We use the word cafe in the beginning, and there was going to be breakfast, which is one of my favorite meals. I was really excited to do all the bakeries and viennoiserie and all of that part that we keep mostly for the weekend now, because we're not open for breakfast anymore.
And then for the menu itself, I got inspired by the idea of, yeah, a place where you can go at any time of the day that on the menu, you can have something for just a snack or a full meal. I got inspired by what I know of those French restaurants are in France and that do that. Also, the family recipes, I have had a lot of time with my grandmas and my mom cooking and these recipes, they stick with you. There's long stews cooking on the stove. And my grandpa was a hunter, so he would bring back game at home and she would do all these complicated meals for family gatherings.
And so sometimes, I'll put a little bit of that. And also, I had training for almost 10 years in fine dining restaurants in France, so a little bit of that. But it was always classical, even fine dining, but mostly classical, although I did work with Pierre Gagnaire and it was a little more creative and it would get out of the way but always with a base of the tradition. It's a mix of all of that. Like Robin says, it's authentic, I guess, because yeah, it's what I do. I do French food. And it's a mix of all these different kinds of cuisine that I've encountered.
Kerry Diamond:
How often does the menu change?
Marie-Aude Rose:
Changes come with season. Now we've found that after five years, there are dishes that we don't want to take off because ...
Kerry Diamond:
That's my next question because I would complain, no. Because a lot of people would complain. There are a lot of dishes that I know I've fallen in love with and I can just imagine everyone else. What are some of those things that you could never take off the menu?
Marie-Aude Rose:
We have the classic salad nicoise, can't take it off. It's, like I said, it's great because you can just come in and have the salad nicoise and you're good. You can go about your day and feel light and happy to have spent even just 40 minutes in La Mercerie.
Kerry Diamond:
What would Robin cry about if you took off the menu?
Marie-Aude Rose:
Le profiterole.
Kerry Diamond:
You knew that answer immediately.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes.
Robin Standefer:
I came in for someone's birthday and it was gone. I was like, "Oh, my god." Because I was talking up how amazing it was. And I hope we're going to talk now about the crepe because that is you know what I mean? They're neck and neck.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes, that's my favorite.
Robin Standefer:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Robin Standefer:
When I tell you people, they get emotional if it takes too long or if it runs out. I mean, those things have happened. It's beautiful. I mean, five years is not quite five years just about getting there. It's a benchmark of getting to a certain place where to see the place functioning, to see it as a full organism even after and going through the pandemic. And then to see people just love some of these dishes, beef bourguignon. There are certain dishes they do start to create that incredible foundation of a tradition, like we're developing our own traditions.
Kerry Diamond:
So tell us about the crepe or the crepe. I should pronounce it correctly.
Robin Standefer:
Oh, it's awesome.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yeah, it's a tradition from Brittany, because buckwheat grows in Brittany. So that's something that they were making. The crepe is the batter, yeah, it's made with buckwheat flour. Two different kinds, one that is very fine, and one that is a little more coarse. And it only has water and salt and a little olive oil. So that's the crepe base. So, we make the crepe complète now, we only have that one. But in the beginning, we had a few others, which I am willing to bring back.
Kerry Diamond:
And crepe complète is egg with ham and cheese.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Exactly. So I use comte cheese that was aged 18 months. We use organic eggs and cooked ham that I had to really search to find the right taste. It was great to, in the beginning, look for all these products that would be the closest to my taste from France. So that's the work that I do also every day, not every day, but to really find the products that feel the closest to the true taste in France.
Kerry Diamond:
I often think about you and everyone ordering this crepe and I'm like is Mary-Aude in the kitchen just saying like it's a crepe, people. Why is everyone ordering this? But you also made it so beautiful. It's one of the prettiest crepes you've ever seen.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Well, I absolutely understand why people are ordering it. I love it myself. When I'm in Paris, I go by myself in Capri and I order it and I'll take the kids sometimes after school, we'll go for an early dinner in Capri and we'll have that and it's very satisfying meal. For me who have lived in France, I see Brittany, I see the beaches in Brittany, I see also the landscapes. Everything that I eat or make in my mind, it comes with all those visions of the region of the place where it was created also.
Robin Standefer:
Right because there's an archetype to some of these dishes. I think that what starts to happen is, and you talk about that all the time, which really moves me, is the experience, I mean, food can really evoke a place. And that's also part of the reason why we could never have imagined making a shop without a restaurant, because you need those senses activated. I can see how people respond to that crepe. They have an emotional connection to some memory. And when food evokes a memory, which I think a lot of your food does, it's really very powerful. And I think that that was something that we hoped would happen, Stephen and I, but it really happened with Marie.
And it's created an incredible bond and friendship because people, they come to the restaurant a lot. They're really comfortable there. They know what they love to eat. And that's why making sure that you don't take that stuff off the menu is important because it's like their home, right, like an extension of their home.
Marie-Aude Rose:
I cook also like a cook for my children, the idea of that crepe and the way that I plated it and the lemon juice and the [inaudible 00:20:34] that I put on top and the parsley. It came from a day when I was somewhere, I don't remember, with my kids and my mom and my sister. So you can buy the crepes in France at the supermarket. I bought the crepes and I made crepe complete for everyone. And I had that in my mind when I was thinking about making the menu and I thought, this is good. This is what I want to feed people. That's what I want is feed people the way that I feed my family.
Kerry Diamond:
That might be one of the most beautiful things anyone has ever said on Radio Cherry Bombe. Just knowing that when we're at your restaurant that you are feeding us the way you feed your own family is ...
Robin Standefer:
It's everything.
Kerry Diamond:
I almost cried ...
Robin Standefer:
Yes, me too.
Kerry Diamond:
... hearing that. One of the things I absolutely love about La Mercerie is how tactile and beautiful everything is from the food to the objects on the table. I'd love to know how you two have collaborated over the years in terms of presentation. When there's a new item in The Guild or a new menu item. How does the food in the vessel conversation happen?
Robin Standefer:
It's a really interesting dynamic because, again, one of the things we really wanted to do was kind of create a character, if you will, right? And I'm like this, I know people like this where they want to collect beautiful dishes, and they want to put the food on them. And it tends to be something more domestic than it is commercial with regards to restaurants. Because restaurants, look, it's expensive, it's complicated, it's hard to have a bunch of varying dishes. The team really has to do extra lifting to understand what goes on what and to shape it.
And Marie was just so excited and game for, again, treating it like home. We would talk about that. You make a family dinner and you're like, oh, I'm going to try it on that or, oh, that broke yesterday, I'm going to do it on this. And in some ways, we worked that way because I found these artists from all over the place making plates and pitchers and bowls and all kinds of things. A kind of fundamental thing about the store was I wanted people to see how you use it. Because I find something very inanimate about shops, right, now you go to a beautiful store of tableware. There's something very precious about it.
But to just walk in and be able to actually eat on it and touch it, you see how it ages. It's very truthful. So Marie and I started to get together with, I mean, early on. I said, "Well, what do you like for this dish," and she's like, "That one." And I mean, my French is terrible, but a real pod to do like we really came together in this dance, figuring out what would be on the table? What she would make to go on the vessel on the table and like you fell off and said, It influenced the menu. And then it influenced what we bought for the store.
Kerry Diamond:
It adds a complexity to your job, Marie, because you can't just put things on white plates like 99% of the other chefs in New York City.
Marie-Aude Rose:
It also influenced the way I place things on the plate, how it will look like. So I have this available, amazing craft all around me and it's all very earthy and it has rusticity but it's also elegant. So it's a mix of that. I think we found a way to match the kind of food that is both traditional in the sense that it can be rustic for some of the dishes. But then, I add some elegance in the way to plate it. Being able to now walk in the store every day and it definitely gives me ideas for new dishes. It's very inspirational.
Kerry Diamond:
If anyone out there listening is a food stylist or aspiring food stylists and hasn't been to La Mercerie, I just think it is the best place to go in terms of being inspired for tablescapes, food styling all of that. I mean, I never leave not inspired.
Robin Standefer:
That's so sweet, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Tell us about this Sunday night dinner series that's happening this May. How did it come about and what inspired the menus?
Marie-Aude Rose:
A La Mercerie and The Guild, because we are one piece we celebrate the holidays. I have a way to bring into those holidays that can be American holidays or international holidays. I try to bring something from my friends, from my culture. So for Thanksgiving, for example, I would bring a French touch to the sides that are very specific in the states like what you eat, the turkey and the sides are.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, I want a French inspired Thanksgiving. We might have to have you come back in November to talk to us.
Marie-Aude Rose:
So for Mother's Day and just like we did for Valentine's Day, we didn't want to stay to one day and celebrate one day and that's it, that's over. The bigger idea is amazing love. So we ran through a month of love and had these little special things across the month. And for the Mother's Day, I dig into what mothers meant to me and above the fact that I'm a mother and that I'm grateful for my mother and that I find mothers amazing. I thought about these women in France.
It started in the late 18th century, in the region of Lyon. So Rhone, the Rhone region, who started opening restaurants of their own, after having had a really often hard life of working since when they were little in a bourgeois family and learning to feed these families. And they were given a lot of means like a lot of money, they could buy the best products then they started opening these restaurants. And people came to those restaurants feeling like they were at home, feeling like their mothers would cook for them.
You can read stories about politicians like people from all over the world. The Agha Khan going to this tiny place to eat the écrevisse ogata, which are crayfish. What they gave to the recognition of French cuisine is amazing and untold mostly. They trained a lot of the chefs at Bocuse [inaudible 00:27:26], all these amazing chefs who had Michelin stars. They were inspired by these women. And we call them La Mere, mothers. So I thought I would dig into their recipes and bring them through the month of May.
Marie-Aude Rose:
So Sunday also is a family time. So bringing back every Sunday for four weeks, a menu that is tribute to them felt really right.
Kerry Diamond:
So we have a few Sundays left. What are some dishes we can look forward to?
Marie-Aude Rose:
The few menus that are coming include soupe à l'oignon, onion soup. I started making yesterday the beef broth. I clarified it. I roasted the onions, caramelized. So, it's all in the works.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm guessing in your hands, it's not like one of those American soupe à l'oignon gratinée cheese bombs?
Marie-Aude Rose:
No. We will serve it in a ...
Kerry Diamond:
Will we need a knife and fork to eat the soup?
Marie-Aude Rose:
No. It won't be too heavy. It will be just the right taste and hope the customers like it.
Robin Standefer:
And what are you serving it in? What vessel?
Marie-Aude Rose:
The onion soup will be served in donabe, this Japanese dish that we already use for bourguignon and the cod and [inaudible 00:28:48]. And the choice of this dish is going to influence the way that you eat it and that you appreciate it.
Kerry Diamond:
It makes us think differently about it because for how many decades now have we all been served here in the US, the traditional soup vessel for that dish.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Marie-Aude Rose:
So here comes a detail that represents the work that we do with Robin and the influence of the dish also of the vessel on the cooking.
Kerry Diamond:
Now, Robin, that's not a traditional French vessel.
Robin Standefer:
No, these Japanese donabes are these basic casseroles with a top a little kind of a crock pot. When we were traveling in Japan to collect some of the dishes for La Mercerie, I brought them back, Stephen started testing in them and making things and they held the heat so beautifully. They had such a beautiful glaze and I could not wait to bring them to Marie.
We started to go to these potters and they were often little, I mean, in the hills of Japan and they were family businesses. And a lot of times, they were couples kind of, again, making these casseroles for their region. We brought them back and I said, "Marie, it seems to me that this is such a great dish for soups and stews," which was a lot of the stuff she was doing. And she was like, "Whoa, could be great," and started to experiment.
I kind of love that cross cultural intersection. It's very functional. It's very real. It's historic. But it's from a totally different background. But to see the bourguignon and I haven't seen the onion soup yet, I can't wait. But to see the bourguignon, to see the cod in that dish, when that comes out in the restaurant, I have to tell you, I really still have like an incredible, visceral emotional reaction. It's bringing cultures together over food and over dishes and things you make, food you make and the objects.
And I do want to say this because it's something, I mean, you both know, the food world has really exploded in the last 20 years, especially in the United States, but I think a lot of parts of the world. And it's been, I think, something that's brought a lot of people together. And it's always been something fundamentally people come together over food. But I was really struck by how dishes and what you cooked something in or what you served it in was really regional. And I've really been interested in shaking that up. And The Guild does that.
I'll say to Marie, "I'm not even going to tell you where it's from right now. Or what it is. Go in the store and grab things you love and that makes sense to cook what you want to cook in it." And it creates this cross pollination that's just amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Just to a tiny little bow on the dinner series, if folks would like to come in on Sundays, they can just book through Resy?
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes, they can. And they can decide to have the menu or not or decide otherwise. It will be there, we have printed them. And I have made some notes about the products that we use that night. The reasons why it makes sense to some of the mothers, La Mere, that I got inspired from, some little stories are on that little menu. So you'll find mousse au chocolat. You'll find a veal chop with a sorrel sauce. So all these dishes, again, are dishes that some of them would make of le mere and using the seasonal products. I tried to also be in tune with the seasonality of New York, because it's different from France. There's a little time difference also about that.
Kerry Diamond:
The menus are so beautiful, even if you're not going to be in New York in May, you should still take a look at the menus, because I think you'll be very inspired by what Marie has put together. Roman and Williams has designed so many restaurants in New York, some of the most beautiful restaurants and iconic restaurants. Can you share a few highlights or favorites? I know that's hard, because you've worked with so many good people.
Robin Standefer:
Le Coucou is definitely a highlight.
Kerry Diamond:
That is such a beautiful restaurant.
Robin Standefer:
Thank you. I mean, it really ...
Kerry Diamond:
Just the bar, if you do nothing more than walk in, peek at the bar.
Robin Standefer:
And just that idea, again of a bar somehow feeling like there's an intimacy. It's got a small scale, the mural really envelops it. That space was a Holiday Inn.
Kerry Diamond:
Stop.
Robin Standefer:
Yes, it was. I never do this, I never really have show before and after pictures. I mean, the before and after of what that place looked like is just fierce. But I really love that restaurant. And because, again, it transports you. So there's something that you go through the threshold and you come from that sort of gritty intensity of Lafayette and canal and similarly, La Mercerie, I think, Le Coucou have a relationship, because it really was about creating this transportive environment in a gritty, intense city.
I grew up in New York and I do remember certain places where you walked in and you were transported and you said, "Oh, I'm safe. I have a different perspective now." And so, Le Coucou does that. I think that listen, the boom boom room is not a place for food. But when we opened, Andre for a while had these crazy petit fours and all these weird like oysters and I loved it. It's such a glamorous space with this very sort of precise really extravagant treats.
Kerry Diamond:
And the boom boom room being the top of the ...
Robin Standefer:
I'm sorry. Yes. Andre Blas was you know what I mean? Yeah. So that speaks to these things where about connecting the experience with the food. It's really again, I always think about it because I always get like 20 emails about it right after the Met ball, because that's where everybody goes. They also do these weird little snacks there. And so that's about this 360 view, like how does each part of the journey when you cross the threshold of the door in a restaurant, reinforce the narrative?
Kerry Diamond:
I would love to know this. And we have so many restaurateurs and chefs out there who listen to the show, what is the design element or two that all successful restaurants share? So if you're planning the restaurant of your dreams, what do you absolutely have to include?
Robin Standefer:
Okay, I'm going to say, I'm going to, well, it's a tricky one. So I'd say number one is about the journey and the planning, right, is about the sequence. I think that it's very hard to make a restaurant that's truly evocative and really successful, that doesn't have a combination of compression and expansion, doesn't really have a level of seating and sight lines that kind of create discoveries. Don't give it all away too fast. People might disagree, but I believe that's kind of critical that you need to have something that you keep discovering, and it gets you coming back.
I also think and something Marie and I have talked about a lot is atmosphere. And I think atmosphere has to do with lighting. And so, when I say that I don't only, I mean really spatial atmosphere, and lighting is a big part of that. So whether it's the candles, the tableware, the kind of lights, again, sight line, so how you see the bar. Right? If you see the bar, if you're choosing to have one, what that person standing there is.
So this idea of the journey and this idea of what you see and atmosphere as part of that I think is essential to make a successful restaurant.
Marie-Aude Rose:
I agree. And I would add the ceilings, the high ceilings, to me. The lighting I discovered with Robin's restaurant and her work with… who is amazing. And to me, it really makes a huge difference.
Kerry Diamond:
Robin, you transitioned from working on film sets to working on homes and restaurants to other spaces, including the galleries at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Congratulations on that, by the way.
Robin Standefer:
Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
What an honor and a thrill that must have been. I'm curious, from your perspective, what do film sets and restaurants have in common?
Robin Standefer:
Well, it's a great, I mean, kind of extension of talking about atmosphere on the journey, because one of the most I think profound things that restaurants and films have in common is that you have to evoke an experience visually. It's interesting, because I'm thinking of this, even as you're asking, when you're in a real restaurant, you get to experience the senses, right? You're smelling. You're tasting. When you're watching a film, you don't have the ability to do that, right.
So you have to evoke those smells and those tastes with atmosphere. And so we learn to that. And when you do that, we carry that into a real restaurant, because I think you have to have a heightened sense of the senses and the space to really create a restaurant that is evocative and memorable. So even though you smell the food and you see the food, and hopefully it's awesome, and La Mercerie's food is spectacular and feels so much like it's in harmony with the room.
When we design something, we first believe that all of those elements have to foster the food because coming from film where you were not able to have those bits, not able to smell anything, not able to taste anything. You had to make someone watching believe they could. I think that you can see an image and believe you can taste it. Those two things come together. I mean, we as a practice in La Mercerie and The Guild is sort of the ultimate expression of this.
But evoking the senses is something I want to be able to do even in two dimensions. That's why a restaurant is a really amazing challenge.
Kerry Diamond:
Is that why the open kitchen is so key?
Robin Standefer:
Oh, totally. I mean, that idea of the proximity, it's a good story to tell. When we designed La Mercerie. We decided that that open kitchen was very present. Those beautiful handmade tiles that athanor but that it was really a character in the dining room. Marie will tell you, she was like, it's a little close. And now I think we both feel it's really domestic like you're in someone's house. When you're in someone's house and they're cooking, unless it's super fancy, you are right there with them in the kitchen. And I really wanted it to feel that way. And now she spends her time, Marie, between Paris and New York. But when you're in New York and you're in that kitchen, I'm like in heaven.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you feel about the open kitchen? Not all chefs love them.
Marie-Aude Rose:
I had experience of open kitchens when I started working with my husband Daniel at his first restaurant Spring. It was a tiny restaurant, only 16 seats, so eight tables. And it was a little one room open kitchen. And I learned how to work in a kitchen like that. And I learned the importance of the theatricality of the whole experience and how people perceive your work as a cook. And it creates something that doesn't exist in a restaurant with a close kitchen is really the connection with the customers being able to look in their eyes and for the chef to check on them. Even if the waiters are running around. And sometimes you see things they don't see.
So I love that I will be telling them, "Hey, I think this person is raising their hands," or to do see that person's face, is everything okay? So I love that I am able to connect with people, even if I can be shy and I don't always go to the tables, I love to be able to care for them in my own way. So the open kitchen at La Mercerie is something I am always comfortable doing. And it's also so beautiful. They created, Robin and Stephen, they created this kitchen that feels like a home kitchen. So, it's really a pleasure to work in it.
Kerry Diamond:
We would all love a home kitchen that looked like that.
Robin Standefer:
Me too. But that sense of care, you bring up that word, right? How you set the tables, caring about the kitchen, caring about the guests. I mean, I know when I entertain, that's what I want someone to leave feeling. I don't always think restaurants, that's their primary goal, not to say you don't have an incredible experience, but The Guild is about this vision of home. What's a home? What kind of home do you want to make for yourself? And I think La Mercerie is part of that conversation. Even Marie in the kitchen, the team, and then sometimes they'll come around and walk out. And I'm like, it really doesn't feel like you're in a public space. You feel like you're in a private space.
Marie-Aude Rose:
I want to just add something about the open kitchen. In kitchens, I've worked in star Michelin restaurants, there could be some words that were hired, and some aggressivity sometimes working in an open kitchen. It teaches people to work in a cordial manner. You have to be careful of how you work and be presentable and also kind to your teammates.
Kerry Diamond:
It's so interesting that you say that. I often think now when I see a brand new restaurant that has an open kitchen, I'm like, I think, every restaurant should have an open kitchen because they'll do away with a lot of the historic problems that the restaurant industry has had. It won't solve them all, but it will definitely make people behave better toward each other.
Robin Standefer:
Yeah, transparency, it does that, right?
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, absolutely. Marie, how did you become a chef?
Marie-Aude Rose:
I trained at the l'Ecole Ferrandi in Paris. I came to decide that I was going to do this school a little later. I went to La Sorbonne and then studied English literature civilization. And then I did do a little bit of acting and acting school. But the cooking was the true passion. And my first step in professional kitchen as an intern was a revelation. I thought that's where I needed to be my whole life. So I did this school. And then I started working in high end restaurants. That's what I wanted to do and to learn from the best. I think I really liked the military ways to structure.
Kerry Diamond:
The precision.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes, I think I came out of a teenagehood a little later that I was a little confused. And I think finding the manual work that I was doing in a kitchen and the intensity of it gave me a sense of soothing. It was soothing to me from all the anxiety that life can cause.
Kerry Diamond:
I can see that. And our regular listeners will be like, why did I hear about that culinary school? And we had Claire Saffitz ...
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes, she did go.
Kerry Diamond:
... on the show and she went to that culinary school. It's so funny. We've been doing Radio Cherry Bombe for eight years, I've never heard of the culinary school now twice in one year. We've talked about it.
Marie-Aude Rose:
It's an amazing school. They have great teachers. The facility is amazing. And they have all sorts of programs for international people. But also, for me who was coming at it after I had done other things, because a lot of cooks in France start their school when they're 15 or something. So I would work with people that were much younger than me.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, before I let you both go, Robin, I meant to ask you this earlier, when you had the vision for The Guild and La Mercerie. And you were talking to people about it, did everyone say to you, why in the world do you want to get into the restaurant industry? You are already in it as someone who was designing these incredible restaurants. But operating and owning is a different thing.
Robin Standefer:
It is really different. And people did say that. I mean, look, when you're going to do something that's an undertaking, like The Guild and La Mercerie, basically, you have to ignore all professional advice. You must. Because if you take professional advice, we would not even be sitting here doing this podcast, right? I mean, everybody says, you don't want to open a restaurant, retail is terrible. Bricks and mortar store, I mean, every single part of it, oh, you're going to bring these artists things. It's hard to ship them. So anyway, I could go on. But the point is that every turn there was that kind of question.
Remember, we'd been around the restaurant world now in hospitality for a while it really was time for us to own it. And that's why the relationship with Marie does to me is so special in the partnership, because a partnership is very different than when you're serving someone. And when you are hired as a chef or hired as a designer, you're in service. I am very respectful of that role. But when you own and are creating something, it's a very different experience. I have to almost say yes to operations. I mean, I still get calls about toilets overflowing at like 2:00 in the morning.
And I take that over, not being able to engage in all the details, because that's a beautiful thing about being able to own and operate a restaurant.
Kerry Diamond:
I would love to know what's next for each of you. Marie, what are you working on?
Marie-Aude Rose:
I also work with my husband, Daniele, on other projects. And we are working on a restaurant in LA and Chicago as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, lucky Chicago.
Marie-Aude Rose:
This is in the works. And my bigger project is really to give to La Mercerie that second breath that it was lucky to get through the pandemic. It's been five years, but it has known different times, different menus because of everything that happened.
Kerry Diamond:
Right, for such a young restaurant, it's been through a lot.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Robin is raising her eyebrows. Yes.
Marie-Aude Rose:
I really want to focus on everything that it can continue to be and more.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. I don't think we've even seen the full potential of what that restaurant can be.
Robin Standefer:
Oh, no, totally. And we do have a lot of ideas together. And so, in some ways, the pause, especially allowing us to have that outdoor space because we always talked about that Marie brought it up a little bit, we called it a cafe and we changed it. Because Americans really felt like a cafe only had sort of breakfast or light bites. And Marie was doing such incredible things for lunch and dinner that I said, "I think we really have to use the word restaurant." And we were lucky in the times, we got two stars. I was like, "Okay, we have to call it a restaurant."
And now, even understanding what that means, I keep people in the store. We've also moved the seats into the store and people are there till midnight eating and shopping and so an outside to inside. So the ecosystem is having an influence on us. So it's nice when the dialogue with the customer starts to influence what you do. So I think that'll tell us what's next.
Kerry Diamond:
Robin, you always have a million projects, is there something special you have coming up?
Robin Standefer:
Well, I will talk about this because we're in the food universe. But in a couple of months, we've been working the last six years with John George on the Tin Building, which is hopefully to be the most premier market in the country which was in the old Fulton Fish Market space, so deep in there, finishing touches and it's like 55,000 square feet. It's like peeling an onion restaurant inside of restaurants. So that's been incredible, technically incredible. And he's amazing and focused on trying to make the place really have a zero waste policy within all these different sort of culinary languages and all these different spaces.
So, there are some new things on the horizon. But that's about to open.
Kerry Diamond:
It's really lovely what they've done in there. A lot of cool projects led by women down there so folks should look into it if they're coming to visit or living in the city.
Robin Standefer:
And he's embraced, I mean, a lot of amazing women within. I mean, the Tin Building is like ecosystem. I mean, it's really it's like a little city of restaurant culture, just people baking and making all kinds of things. I'm like, Marie, let's bake some things and put them in there. There's a lot of experimentation happening. And so yeah, so a lot of cool women on the team doing stuff with inside that JG universe.
Kerry Diamond:
So excited. Well, hopefully you two know what a personal and professional fan I am of you each. I just adore what you both do. And I love the space that you've created down in Soho. And I've had so much joy there and eaten so much beautiful food and had so many really just great moments of contemplation there. And I have to thank you both for that and for all your other contributions.
Marie-Aude Rose:
Thank you so much.
Robin Standefer:
Thank you, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Robin Standefer and Maria-Aude Rose for joining us. If you're in New York City, stop by La Mercerie and The Guild, I highly recommend the crepe. But everything coming out of Chef Marie-Aude's kitchen is delicious. Also, if you'd like to know more about Roman and Williams, check out their book, Things We Made. Thank you to Käserei Champignon, Cambozola and California Prunes for supporting today's show. Be sure to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a single episode.
Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Thank you Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. And thank you to our assistant producer Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You are the bombe.