Kerry Diamond:
My name is Kerry Diamond. I am the founder Cherry Bombe and the host of Radio Cherry Bombe. And I'd like to welcome all of you to Hugs and Quiches our demo that is part of The Julia Jubilee, our virtual celebration of the life and legacy of Julia Child. I'm so excited for this demo. This feature is Molly Yeh. Molly is the star of Girl Meets Farm and the author of Molly on The Range and Erin Jeanne McDowell. Erin is the author of the bestselling cookbook, The Book on Pie, and she is an absolute authority on all things baking. I'm totally out of breath because I ran and got my phone because I didn't want to miss anything.
Kerry Diamond:
We love these two women at the Bombesquad and we are so thrilled that they're doing this demo. Molly is going to be interviewing Erin Jeanne about life, her love of Julia Child and all things baking. And Erin Jeanne is going to walk us through her green veggie quiche. And we're so excited that she's making this because for those of you out there who are Julia Child lovers, what's more quiche than Julia Child. So we're very excited to see how Erin has put a modern spin on green veggie quiche.
Kerry Diamond:
Also, I will be popping back later on to take everyone's questions so I'm sure a lot of you know this already, but we've got a little Q and A box down there. So put your questions in the Q and A totally encourage you to chat in the chat with each other but put your questions in the Q and A box so we don't miss them. And I know a lot of you have already done this and I saw all this... Ah, I just saw Little Rock, Arkansas. Let us know where you're tuning in from, because it's just really fun to see where on the globe you are Zooming in with us.
Kerry Diamond:
Before we start the demo, I would like to thank our sponsor for today's demo and it's Whole Foods Market. Not all you know this, but Cherry Bombe Jubilee started back in 2014. We wanted to do a conference that brought women together for networking, great conversations, beautiful food and drink and we went to Whole Foods and we said, "would you like to sponsor this?" And they had no idea what they were getting into and they said, yes. And they have supported Jubilee ever since. And we're so grateful for that. And they're part of the reason we've been able to make all this amazing programming free all week long for the Julia Jubilee.
Kerry Diamond:
I would also like to talk about one thing in particular. So Whole Foods has this amazing program right now called Sourced for Good. And you can all see that sticker up there. This is the Sourced for Good asparagus that Erin Jeanne will be using later in the demo. But Sourced for Good is a special seal that you'll find on hundreds of products at Whole Foods stores signifying support for worker welfare, communities, environmental stewardship as verified by organizations including the Rainforest Alliance and Fairtrade America.
Kerry Diamond:
So these values are important to me. We know these values are important to you and we thought you'd appreciate knowing that such a seal and such a program exists. So the next time you go to Whole Foods Market, definitely look for that seal. All right. Okay. I am going to pass things over to Molly and Erin Jeanne and I can't wait to watch along and bake along with all of you. All right. I'll see you for the Q and A portion. Bye, everybody.
Molly Yeh:
Hi.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Hi. I'm so happy to see you.
Molly Yeh:
Hello. I can see you, Erin. How are you?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm so good. How are you?
Molly Yeh:
I'm good now. I love you.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I love you.
Molly Yeh:
It's so much fun hanging out with you. I've been looking forward to this for so long.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Me too.
Molly Yeh:
I love Jubilee. I love this Cherry Bombe community and we're going to have so much fun.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
For sure. I said it's going to be the smiliest session that the Jubilee sees this year because you're one of the only people just seeing your face makes me smile. But also I know I've already told you this, but for everybody else, my mom records Girl Meets Farm so we can watch it together when we're together. And we're only together a couple of times a year, as of now, we haven't been together since 2019. So we are going to have so much to catch up on when I see her in a few weeks.
Molly Yeh:
I love your mom. What's up Erin's mom? Erin, I absolutely am the biggest fan girl of you. And what I love is you have so much joy that you bring to baking, to what you do, to teaching and I see so many similarities between you and Julia in that regard. There is... Sorry, I hope you're wearing waterproof mascara. I'm sorry.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
That was a big drop. And thank you so much for the compliment.
Molly Yeh:
Of course, Julia is this iconic figure. I think we all grew up reading her books, watching her shows and she was so joyful and so much herself. And she had this passion for teaching and for food. And when I read your books and when I watch your videos I get that same feeling. Sorry to put you on the spot like that.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
No, thank you so much. Wow-
Molly Yeh:
I want to hear from you what your love of Julia is all about.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
First of all, thank you for such a lovely compliment. And I think anybody who loves food feels a little bit of Julia in them. I think what you said is so true. It's that joyfulness that desire to teach. And in fact, you'll forgive me because I'm such a Julia fan that I have quotes because there are just certain things that she has said that have really inspired almost my entire career. Things that I read when I was really young, that I was just like, oh my gosh, well then yeah. And one of those things was that she once said, "I learned a lot, I taught people a thing or two, but at the end of the day what is really important isn't about if you're going to be remembered or that memory from people might fade. It's the individuals that you impacted along the way."
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
And what I think is so funny is even in that quote, she says, the memory might fade, but of course her memory hasn't faded and the reason it hasn't is because she touched so many individuals, like so many people carry those lessons. And for me, it started with my grandma, which is also where my love of pie comes from. So it's a good overlap, but my grandma loved watching Julia Child on PBS. And it was a regular thing we would watch together when I was over there and of course she would make us laugh and we would learn some things. And several times, we couldn't believe it, but we were just headed into the kitchen afterwards to try something.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
So one of the other things that I think there's a lot of, I almost don't want to use this phrase, but that imposter syndrome that so many people feel, there are so many people in the food industry. And one of the things that she taught me from such an early time on is like, it's okay to make mistakes and mistakes are part of the learning process and that we're never really done learning. Once she mastered French cuisine, she was onto the next thing that she wanted to learn about. And the next thing, and the next thing, and that I think is something that really defines what I've carried with me of her through my whole career. And especially that making mistakes, because I think she once said something like, if you're not ready to fail, you're never going to learn to cook. And I love that because it's so true.
Molly Yeh:
She has that relate-ability element that just makes you love her more. And in her cookbooks too, that voice really comes through. So I guess your favorite quote, isn't, "a party without a cake is just a meeting."
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I love that one.
Molly Yeh:
We can change it to a party without pie.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm pro cake too as you know. I also love, of course, "if you're afraid of butter use cream," that's the classic of Julia. We were just watching actually some clips of her and there's this one great clip in an episode where she's teaching about roast chicken, where she names all the different types of chickens, like all the sizes and she's introducing them almost like they're a band. She's like, "roaster, frier, broiler."
Molly Yeh:
They're all of my friends.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I know. And then she even gives the one that she picked, she's like, "we're going to do the roaster." And she gives its measurements. She's like "14, 16, 14."
Molly Yeh:
Right. I think this a good time to show you actually my favorite picture of Julia, it's not of her with a chicken, but she has this other friend. Do you have Julia Child and More Company?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I do.
Molly Yeh:
Do you know which picture I'm about to show. This is Julia with a 25 pound monkfish.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Classic.
Molly Yeh:
Yeah. Just holding it. Like here it is. Here's this fish that I got from my fishmonger and now I'm going to show you how to cook it.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Totally.
Molly Yeh:
And she knows how funny it is. Something like this is not very relatable, but she realizes it and that's why we love her. And she said that when they wheeled it on set, everybody screamed and the fishmonger got into this giggling fit and it was just this whole thing. And then she goes into what was inside the monkfish's stomach that it had eaten, but anyway.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Those are gems that she gives us too, to your point about being real life. It's like, yeah, this might even look like something that to the camera it's scary or whatever and I'm going to show you exactly why it's not. And then at the end of it, I'm going to shove a big mouthful of it into my face and it's going to be delicious.
Molly Yeh:
You know what she is. I'm going to plug your first book. She's fearless.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Thank you.
Molly Yeh:
Look at all my props.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
She talked about that too, about just trying new things, not being afraid to. And if she hadn't tried new things, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about her. She didn't even know how to cook until she was the age that I am now, which is crazy.
Molly Yeh:
Yeah, that blows my mind. I was just thinking about this. What do you think Julia Child would be like if she had Instagram?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh my gosh. See, don't you feel like she wouldn't have one? I feel like she might not have one.
Molly Yeh:
Okay. That's good because I could see so much FOMO coming about from seeing her beautiful summers in France.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Totally.
Molly Yeh:
Would Paul Child be an Instagram husband who knows, but she makes all of this beautiful food and she has this just picturious life but at the same time she has this relate-ability. So I could see it being this hilarious account that is this juxtaposition of...
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I actually love this comment that just came up, that someone said, "she wouldn't, but Paul would," which makes sense because he took so many photographs. So he would probably run her Instagram account and would be her Instagram husband.
Molly Yeh:
Somebody's got to create like a period Instagram account with Paul's old photos but updated captions.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. So when are we starting that? Is that right after this Zoom?
Molly Yeh:
Okay. Let's talk about her quiche because I've made her quiche. I actually got to visit her old house in France which is now a cooking school run by this amazing woman named McKenna. And one of my biggest connections to Julia was when I got to visit when it first opened up and I made her quiche. I stood in front of her pegboard. I watched her quiche episode a bunch of times to try to make it like her. And there were all of these little quirks that I got to recreate it. It was so much fun. So I'm excited to talk about her quiche and about your way of making quiche because everyone loves quiche, right?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It's so funny because learning a good quiche I remember she was one of the first places I went to look for a recipe because I knew she would do it right from so many reasons, of course, knowing the French way and everything, but also because every quiche I'd made up to a certain point looked good, tasted good, but it didn't taste like the ones that I would eat when I would go to some amazing bakery and I figured out what it is, it's just that I was not using cream. And then of course, Julia pointed me back in the right direction and said, now hold on there. Cream is sometimes, it doesn't have to be in a quiche, but of course the addition of that a little bit of extra fat makes it so custardy and a lot of the French quiches especially are known for being just that ultimate jiggle custardy situation.
Molly Yeh:
The ultimate jiggle. Right. No, I completely agree. I think that a pretty good quiche is easy to make.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes and delicious.
Molly Yeh:
But taking it to that next level it doesn't require fancy ingredients. It doesn't require anything too complicated. It's just knowing the right things and-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely.
Molly Yeh:
Knowing the right moves to make. So do you want to get started?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah, I do. And I also want to just say that, one of the things for me about quiche especially now is, and I think Julia teaches us so much, but of course is good ingredients. And one of the things that is the most important to me is the really good eggs. And of course, it's great when you can get farm fresh eggs but the eggs that I got from Whole Foods today, beautiful brown and speckled.
Molly Yeh:
Thank you Whole Foods.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I had to just say like, because specifically you know the science-y thing about the egg that the fresher it is less of an air bubble is attached to the shell. And when I popped these open today, I was like, "okay, I think Julia is with us today. She got us the best eggs. She delivered them here. And now we're going to make really, really beautiful quiche."
Molly Yeh:
Okay. So the freshest of eggs, because tell me now what that translates in the quiche, that smaller air bubble. What does that mean?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Whenever you're dealing with fresher eggs of course, you're also just dealing with the actual fresh taste of the egg, which when it's in its raw state and we're thinking about that, we're not always thinking about, but one of the things that I was and hopefully it's going to happen when we crack our next round of eggs as well, you want to look for those really, really orangy yolks because the fat is really crucial in the quiche. Julia Child said fat means flavor. So we need to make sure that there's not...
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Of course, you can make a delicious egg white quiche. You can make all of these things, that is the one way that I modernize it a little bit. This particular recipe is loaded with veggies and the custard is just binding it. Don't get me wrong, I also love a really plain quiche or cheesy quiche, something that's just pure rich on rich on rich. But what I wanted to do with this recipe is also make it, if we're using that little bit of cream and we're going to enjoy this rich custard, let's also enjoy some crunch, let's also enjoy and come spring-
Molly Yeh:
Bring in some balance.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. I mean a little bit of balance, because to be clear, we still saute the veggies and butter, but all in the name of balance.
Molly Yeh:
Totally worth it. Okay. So you've got your as fresh as possible eggs. Are they cold or are they at room temperature?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I have them at room temperature now though, of course you can make a quiche custard from cold eggs. One of the advantages of having them at room temperature is that the quiche is going to set faster in the oven, which when we're trying to get that perfect jiggle if you're going from cold down to warm, it's just a slightly different situation. I do need to just grab my pie crust really quick. So I'm going to grab that just from my fridge right next to me, I'll be right back.
Molly Yeh:
Go grab your pie crust. Okay. So we've got room temperature eggs. Now one question that I sometimes get about room temperature eggs is like how long is it safe to keep them out? When you say room temperature, how long are you putting them out in your kitchen? Is it okay to keep them out overnight? Is it okay to put them in the sun to speed up the heating process? What is your routine for bringing eggs to room temperature?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Okay. So this is something, and I don't know, we'll see what the chat says when I say this, but I grew up, it's sort of funny, you and I also kind of have opposite stories in some way of like-
Molly Yeh:
We traded spots.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. I grew up in the country and then ended up in the big city. So growing up, we had chickens when I was really, really young. And even when we didn't have chickens, we would have eggs nearby. And when you're dealing with really fresh eggs and especially in America, we're dealing with pasteurized eggs. In my opinion, it is very safe to leave them at room temperature for even several days. Now I know not everyone is okay with that. So typically what I would say is leaving them out overnight the day before you want to bake is going to be sufficient. But if I'm being honest, I have a container of eggs that holds three dozen that sits on my counter at all times. And I also am baking a huge quantity of stuff all the time.
Molly Yeh:
The turnover is high. Yeah.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. So they are not usually sitting out for much longer than a couple of days, especially when I was eating farm fresh eggs a lot, they often weren't even going into the fridge. Like we were going and getting them [crosstalk 00:18:07].
Molly Yeh:
Yeah.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Totally. So anyway, that's kind of my feeling on eggs.
Molly Yeh:
I am in full support of that. Well, when we get when we get eggs from our chickens, our chickens are older now, we only probably get one or two every week, but they have this coating on them that is a protective coating. That's why you're not supposed to wash them before using them. We keep them out at room temperature and then they bake up faster because they are at room temperature already.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
And also the emulsions that we're making in so much baking. We're also able to blend things better and more effectively without batters breaking and all that business.
Molly Yeh:
Yeah. They blend in with butter nicer and all that. Okay. So you're rolling out dough right now. Oh, we have your counter camera too.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah. Maybe we can switch to my counter camera for a little bit while I'm rolling and crimping.
Molly Yeh:
So you have got a pie dough that you made in advance.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. I made this this morning, just like for real talk. It's not like it has to be done a day before though. One of the things that I like about pie, I know people think any kind of pie because to me, quiche is actually one of the most accessible kinds of pie because it's great warm, it's great at room temperature, it's great chilled. You can put anything in it. It just really versatile and to me, it's really simple. So for all those rules that you hear me talking about, like it should be chilled for this long and this long, and this long quiche is something that if I'm being honest, I regularly do move a little faster with just so I can have it for dinner and things at my house.
Molly Yeh:
And do you find it a little bit more forgiving too because of that?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes, especially because of all the excess fat that's in, I mean not excess fat, but because we're dealing with egg yolks and some kind of dairy product and sometimes butter and things of that nature, even if you over bake it a smidge, it's often still going to have a really nice mouth feel. Whereas an over baked pumpkin pie or cheesecake cake can be kind of dense and tough and of course a quiche can get there, but because we're helping it with so many other ingredients and it's very liquid, it usually still has this nice kind of softness.
Molly Yeh:
So this might be a gateway pie for somebody who's wanting to dip their toes into the world of pie.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely. I think so. And I think it's also great, I'm always encouraging people to make more savory pies because I think people who learn their pie skills, then they may not want to eat desserts all the time and I understand that like we all. I want to eat desserts all the time, but sometimes you need a break or whatever, but I think savory pies are such a great way. And quiche is probably one of the most known savory pies. And I just want to ask is my countertop phone on the screen because I have flour hands now and I just want to make sure-
Molly Yeh:
Lets see.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Before I-
Molly Yeh:
Okay.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh, they're saying yes, it is now. Okay. I can't see it, but if you guys can you should be good.
Molly Yeh:
Okay, I'm seeing your beautiful face. Okay.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Turn it a little?
Molly Yeh:
This is actually my favorite page in your Pie Book. Tell me what-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I love the page.
Molly Yeh:
I gasped when I saw this page for the first time. You're using a basic pie dough, correct?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Molly Yeh:
All butter. This is your all-butter crust.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
All butter baby.
Molly Yeh:
All butter baby. And this is your standard go-to. Do you you prefer to mix by hand, or with a food processor or a pastry cutter for this?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
In the book I give instructions for all three, because I really think things like that are a preference. But I mixed by hand because I really think it's the best way to get the feel of everything. And specifically to not over-mix or to get the hydration right which is so important. And this is my all butter dough and this is actually the extra flaky which I'm talking about because this isn't something probably that Julia would have done. And that's one of the reasons why I need to call it out.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I also have recipe in my book for pate brisee and anyone who is looking to go for the most foolproof pie dough method. I think pate brisee which I learned how to make pate brisee from Julia's books. I think pate brisee is one of the most foolproof and it can be made in the food processor or by hand. And because the butter is mixed in really, really finely it's like super incorporated into a meal, that makes the dough kind of behave a little bit better at all stages. Whereas when you've got the bigger chunks of butter, the payoff is huge later, but it can be more troublesome to work with. So for people just getting started, pate brisee is a great way to go. But this is-
Molly Yeh:
So the main defining feature of a pate brisee is much smaller chunks of butter?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. It's fairly finely incorporated usually kind of into a mealy texture. And when you have that much fat dispersed all throughout the dough in tiny pieces, that puffiness that flakiness sort of happens naturally, as long as the dough is really, really cold. When you're dealing with the bigger pieces, sometimes what can happen is the butter melting out of the crust. And there are ways around all of those things, but that's basically one of the reasons why I say pate brisee is a great way for a beginner and for anyone who's a little bit more advanced or loves to make pie a lot already. Then one of the things that I like to use as my extra flaky method, which is just my regular all butter pie dough, but I throw one or two folds into it. Just rolling out the dough and folding it into quarters.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
And it's sort of a full lamination that is really, really simple and quick and just adds an extra 30 minutes, I would say because of the chill time, but the results, the payoff. I mean, you're going to see when we slice this other quiche later, it is so flaky.
Molly Yeh:
So flaky. Flaky for days. So we always say about butter being incorporated into pea-sized crumbles.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Molly Yeh:
And so pate brisee is smaller, whereas a flaky.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It kind of depends on the recipe, but it can either be pea-sized and smaller or more fully incorporated. Again, that might vary from recipe to recipe for sure. And then my extra flaky dough, I mix it in a little bit larger and more the size of walnut halves because we are going to undergo these folds that are going to shingle it a little bit further.
Molly Yeh:
Wow. Okay. I feel like we could talk about size of butter for hours.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Molly Yeh:
But I need to draw attention to the most soothing, satisfying part in my opinion of making a pie, which is these gorgeous crimps that you're making right now. Okay. Since I wouldn't shut up about butter size, can we just talk quickly about what all you just did? So you've laid your dough into your pan and then you trim the edges with scissors. And so one thing that I always forget to do is to leave enough overhang to fold it under. And that's so important because look at these gorgeous crimps that you're getting, that's something to really pay attention to. So, that sheet of dough is getting quite a bit larger than that pan when you're rolling it out.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely. I've already tucked it under, but you can see here the seam. So I had about an extra half inch of dough over the, half inch to an inch depending on how much of that crust you like at the edge, and having extra crust like this does a few things. First of all, we fold the dough under itself and automatically we've just made more layers at the edge. So when we slice it, it's going to look-
Molly Yeh:
More layers more butter.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Exactly. It is going to look so great and people are going to get really crispy, light, airy chunks when they get those edge pieces. And then it also is helping us with gravity because we're putting a little more crust at the edge, which is giving us more to actually shape it's going to help the crimps come closer. Someone's asking for a little bit of a closeup and I'll do the best I can. It's that sort of a funky angle. But it's tucked under there you can see the little seam. And then once it's tucked under, you could chill it again or if it's ready to go, you can just start crimping it. And that little bit of excess also makes it so that we've got a little bit of heft here at the sides so we won't get the dreaded sloping down that often happens in the shrinking that can occur.
Molly Yeh:
So very important to have that lip on the pie plate too for that crimping.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Molly Yeh:
To sit on. Sometimes you got a pie plate and it's really pretty, but there's not a thick enough lip. So, that lip it does...
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. Having something to rest on, from the gravity standpoint again, then that has something to support it, it has some kind of base. But one of the things I will say is, of course, it's possible to bake a pie in something that doesn't have that edge. But if this is a part that you've struggled with that making sure you find at least a half an inch at the edge is going to be so life-changing for so many people.
Molly Yeh:
Yeah. And this is so-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm crimping. I'm doing my classic finger crimp, which is just my dominant hand is making the outside shape. So if you were left, you'd go the other way like this. But my dominant hand is making kind of a V-shape and then I'm pressing in and down with my pointer finger of my non-dominant hand.
Molly Yeh:
And when you're pinching it, are you anticipating any sort of puffing and rising in the... Are you thinking, okay, I want to pinch this a little bit smaller and tighter than what I ultimately wanted to be, or is this the kind of crust that is going to hold its shape exactly?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
So the flakier the dough is the less it's going to want to hold its shape. And in my book, I actually have some doughs that I call dough for decor and some goofy names like that because they're a little bit-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah, they're a little bit finer mixed in and as a result the dough doesn't just puff up as much. Oh yes. There's some dough for decor moments and crimping styles. The puffing up, we're going to stop it puffing up anywhere that we don't want it to puff up aka the sides here and the base. But I don't mind if it puffs up a little bit here because it might lose a little bit of the definition and you'll see how much definition it still has in my final pie in a second here.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
But a little bit of that definition loss, I think is the beauty of a pie. It's a little bit of that rustic, but you still want the shape to hold. And as long as it's chilled well enough, it will hold, but the flakier the dough is, to answer your question very roundabout late, it'll puff up more. So these edges are going to be a little bit puffier than if you were mixing it with pate brisee or if you were mixing it with amilea dough.
Molly Yeh:
That is just so beautiful Erin. And that was so satisfying to watch. Okay, now this is going into the freezer? Into the refrigerator?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It went into the refrigerator where it's going to... I prefer a refrigerator chill to a freezer chill mainly because certain butters react differently to that freezer business. And so just to give people the best chance of success, I always say a longer chill time in the fridge, in my opinion, is more preferable to a shorter time in the freezer. But you know, again, we're talking about quiche, we're talking about maybe making something for weeknight or weekday even. And so I will say, of course, if you want to toss it into the freezer and rush this process a little bit, it's not going to hurt it. Just typically sometimes, especially with larger pieces of butter in the dough and the butter is going to melt it has more of a chance of melting out of the dough if it's not handled just right.
Molly Yeh:
And is that a matter of American style butter versus European style butter or what is going on?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah. That can be one of the contributing factors. European style butter has closer to a butter content of 82% and American style butter is closer to... Oh, what's happening here? Sorry, there we go. We're back. The American butter is closer to 80%. That doesn't seem like a big difference 2%. I'm like 2% guys. It's not that big of a difference, but it actually is because more fat means that it's going to melt easier. So it's a little bit more difficult to work with European butters but of course they are also so much more flavorful and satisfying in lots of ways because of that extra fat. So there's definitely like, either way that you go, but the... I'm sorry, where were we? Because, I had my phone thing. What was the original question I was trying to answer?
Molly Yeh:
Just about freezing the butter.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh, yes, yes. The frozen butter, basically what I've found is that if you're... Oh, and here I'll just hold this up to show you guys my little crust. This is one that's been par baked and you can see it got a little wonky, like up here it's not totally straight anymore.
Molly Yeh:
It's relatable, and lovable and looks delicious.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I think that's the best part about pies.
Molly Yeh:
Rustic.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. And also it's only par-baked, but look what we can already do.
Molly Yeh:
Okay. So, when you par-bake your crust they should be that sturdy.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. The sturdiness and the par-baking. So basically no single crust pie is going to be able to bake sufficiently. The custard isn't going to bake sufficiently in the time that it takes for the crust to bake. And also you'll drown the crust and custard, if you don't give it a little bit of a headstart. So we par-baked it at 425 for 15 to 17 minutes with pie weights. And you saw, I just took the pie weights out, but very important that the pie weights come all the way up to the top edge of the crust.
Molly Yeh:
The crust doesn't slide down.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Exactly. You're not just weighing down the center, you're also supporting the sides and that's really important. So people who say, "my crust shrunk and it slid down the pie plate." A lot of times it didn't actually shrink, it just wasn't supported when you were baking it. And that was really what was going on.
Molly Yeh:
More pie weights or putting them up against the side. Okay, so now this cools.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. So you want to cool your crust. I take the pie weights out, after you take the pie weights out it's still going to be a little bit of a wet crust in the center. So we return it to the oven for just another two to three minutes, then we'll let it cool completely and now we can focus on our filling, which is going to happen some back here, but I promise I'll bring in some closeups too. But one thing we're going to do to the crust before, because this is something that I always do with quiche, we've got some Parmesan cheese, and I'm going to put some Parmesan in the bottom of this. You can use freshly grated. It helps to seal the crust a little bit too from the custard, which is just-
Molly Yeh:
Sometimes there will be that layer of ground nuts or like breadcrumbs at the bottom to act to as that barrier. This is blowing my mind right now because I have never thought to do that with quiche. And so you're getting that moisture barrier and of course more flavor from the Parmesan.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Then we get more cheese, which is so exciting. And if you want, you could put that cheese on before you return the pie to the oven for the second par bake and it'll get a little bit crisp on it as well.
Molly Yeh:
Okay. Crispy quiche.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Exactly.
Molly Yeh:
My gosh. I wish Julia could see this. When was the first time you did that? Were you're like, "duh."
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Honestly it was one time when I was rushing and it's basically a mistake I was rushing and I wanted to put cheese on the bottom just for flavor and it melted as soon as I put it on and then I thought, well, what if I just put it in the oven and make a Parmesan crisp in the bottom of the crust. So double crisp.
Molly Yeh:
Does it add a little bit of chewiness in between the filling and the crust?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It's such a fine layer that I don't notice it as much as more like a crispy salty layer. But if you go a thicker layer, I think it could add some chew, which is interesting.
Molly Yeh:
Yeah. It's making me think of mousse pies with that layer of caramel or chocolate ganache that add that new textural excitement. Oh my God. I wish I was there right now, Erin.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely that extra... I wish you were too especially because I'm going to have two quiches. What am I going to do? I'm going to have to find some friends. Okay.
Molly Yeh:
All right, asparagus.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm going to chop my asparagus.
Molly Yeh:
It's not going to be hard for you to find friends Erin.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Thank you. If I could mail you the quiche I would, but I fear that it'll be better to just make you a quiche in person the next time I come to visit.
Molly Yeh:
So we got our asparagus because it's springtime.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. And actually, I was so glad when Cherry Bombe and Kerry asked me to make this particular recipe because it's just the exact right time of year to make it. There are two other quiche variations in my book that are a little less hyper-seasonal, but I am also making one slight change to this that is super seasonal and fun, which is that I actually couldn't find scallions, which I call for in this recipe so we're using ramp.
Molly Yeh:
Ramps.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
We're using some ramps.
Molly Yeh:
Oh, no, you didn't.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm ramped up about it.
Molly Yeh:
Erin, this is going to be some next-level quiche.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm just dropping it into kind of bite chunks. This is that Source Good asparagus and it's going to be really tender by the time it's done baking. So I like to leave it in kind of bigger chunks.
Molly Yeh:
This is just going to-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Just to make sure... Yeah.
Molly Yeh:
Bring in a pie crust. I just got my first ramps last night.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh you did.
Molly Yeh:
I didn't sleep because of it because I was trying to figure out what to make, but now you're showing me what to make.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh gosh. There's just so many things. Did I ever tell you about the time that my mom has had never tasted ramps, my mom and dad both, and I was heading to Kansas it happened to be springtime? So right before I went, I made ramp butter and one jar of pickled ramps.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Well, it didn't even occur to me that that was a liquid then. And so I was trying to carry it on-
Molly Yeh:
Oh, no.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
No joke. They took it from me at security.
Molly Yeh:
No.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
My now-husband had to stop me because I was saying to the security boss like, "please take this to your break room and eat it."
Molly Yeh:
Please enjoy this pickled gold.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
"This is very special. I know that you won't do that because I'm a stranger, but please do it."
Molly Yeh:
No. I'm getting these visions of you chugging ramp brine.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I got the ramp butter through though, which was good. I got the ramp butter through because I had frozen it solid. So it was in my bag and they didn't take it. So mom's still got some ramp butter luckily. So these are some leaks, just one big leak or two smaller ones. My parents grow leaks in their garden and so I know a lot of... This is the wrong crowd to say this to but when I first started cooking, I used leaks a lot and it's because my parents grew them that I kind of used them with so much freedom. And lots of people would ask me when I first started, I know it might be a different story now, but they would always ask me how to use them. And I think delicate egg dishes or are more delicate where you still want oniony flavor. Something like a quiche is such a great showcase for leaks.
Molly Yeh:
I agree. Yeah. I love that you're layering the alliums too, because they bring so much flavor, but in my opinion, the more alliums the better. They layer so nicely.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Totally, totally.
Molly Yeh:
They're like a subtle perfume that you want to wear it a couple of different combinations of just to get slightly different flavors that are all very good and are really just going to enhance the asparagus.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
There they are, in all their glory. They're just so beautiful. I'm here with my wonderful friend Erin Clarkson from Cloudy Kitchen and she was saying yesterday-
Molly Yeh:
Hi, Erin?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
She's behind the scenes here. She was saying that when she first heard about leaks, since they don't have them, she's from New Zealand and since they don't have them, she was wondering why everyone was so freaked out, like why they were so excited about them. And I said that, I think one of the things, and I think this is kind of a Julia thing too, of just appreciating the seasons and some of that stuff. We get ramps before we even get rhubarb. We get ramps before we get a lot of the other spring stuff. So it's just this first glorious sign of what's to come.
Molly Yeh:
Of sunnier, longer, warmer days to come. And the smell that sight of them is it's... Who needs Groundhog Day when you have ramp season?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Right? Exactly.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I added my leaks in here and now I'm just going to chop up the ramps a little bit. The only other step I put in this filling is anything green I can find. So we've got some spinach that we'll put in at the end, and we've got some peas, of course you could use fresh or frozen. I was lucky enough to get some fresh today. You don't need to throw the frozen ones since we're just sauteing them here. And with the ramps, you can go as fine as you want. I usually go finer with the stems and a little chunkier with the leaves since they'll wilt a lot.
Molly Yeh:
And the whole part of the ramp too, right?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. Except for the very end and be sure to clean them really, really, really well. That's one of the biggest things with ramps over something like scallions is there's some, first of all, they're wild, but second of all, they're a leak, a wild leak, and there's so much dirt hiding inside all of those things. So cleaning them really well. And I always joke that the cleaning is kind of a torturous process because they smell so good and you're like, "oh, but first I must clean them."
Molly Yeh:
Yeah. You got to do it. Since they're wild you never know if an animal has come and-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
That for sure and all that dirt because their whole thing is that they grow before the canopy of the forest comes in. So they're growing in dense wooded areas.
Molly Yeh:
I never thought about that.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
That's when the time is to find them. These are some of the things that my family taught me a little bit too. There's another one that, when the lilacs are blooming, that's when you should look for morels.
Molly Yeh:
Wait. Okay. So is that why ramp season is so limited because they have to grow before the trees grow?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely. That is why it's so limited. And it's also why it can be harder to predict because I don't know what it's like where you are right now, but it's been kind of a funky spring here. And there was really warm weather and stuff started blooming and then it snowed and when those kinds of things happen, that can be more detrimental for the ramps in terms of, they just might get stunted or there may not be as many of them, they might be really tiny, that kind of thing. But this was a good year for ramps is my understanding on the East Coast.
Molly Yeh:
It seems early. Is it an earlier year?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Well, we've already had, like I said, some warm. So I think that's what it was is it was a little bit of a jumpstart, but it was the same thing. I don't know. I have all these beautiful flowers and trees in my neighborhood and they always bloom at the same times and this year they bloomed several weeks early. So if we're going by the Magnolia trees, then yes, I think that it was an early year for everything ramps too.
Molly Yeh:
Okay. So in goes the spinach.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yep. And so this is actually a good lesson of... When I'm making savory stuff I like to cook a lot of the ingredients first because there's so much moisture in these. So again, you absolutely could pile raw spinach and raw asparagus into a pie crust but they're going to leach a lot of moisture and you have a potential then to water down your custard, to not have it be seasoned right. And also this is another way for the people that think that pie is such a long process. It's another way to break it up because you could make this mixture, pop it in the fridge, make your pie dough, pop it in the fridge and then the next day just be ready to assemble a much easier portion.
Molly Yeh:
So what you're doing right now might be, if somebody wanted to make a quiche for a Sunday brunch, you could do this on a Saturday night and then Sunday morning just dumb and bake.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely. In fact, that is what I would do and that's how I bake. The amazing Michelle Lopez, the author of Weeknight Baking, I love the way that she divvies up in her book, things like that, because I think that's one of the things that's different from like Julia era of cookbook writing to now is that we are often trying to think of with some of these more complex recipes, Julia was trying to convince us to try them. I think now we're trying to convince people as food creators to figure out how to work them into your actual life, that a quiche doesn't have to be a special project it can be an any time kind of thing.
Molly Yeh:
What a fascinating observation of just this arc of cookbook writing about what the focuses have shifted to. Because yeah, Julia was introducing this whole new world and now we're in the world and we're working it into our crazy busy lives. I love that.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It's a different thing because we have all that knowledge that we have from her now. The words that are just in our vocabulary because of Julia. The French terms or the specific meals and all of those things, that kind of stuff it's like, we're not always starting from scratch anymore. People like Julia and of course she's not the only one, the amazing article in the Julia issue by Abena about... I mean, we've got so, so many people that have paved this way, so that now the work that we get to do as food creators, I think is just fun. They did a lot of the hard work for us of convincing people to try things and there's still a long, long way to go, but I think there's so much of that.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
She was trying to take people who were eating largely convenience foods and trying to teach them to cook from scratch. And now we have the advantage of being able to say, okay, well, here's some easier things to cook from scratch, but also like during the pandemic, if you're ready for a project, like so many people-
Molly Yeh:
Right. Exactly.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Had then, the we're ready to go.
Molly Yeh:
We also have access to so many varied and new ingredients, whether it is a convenience ingredient or different spices from different parts of the world, different that's... It's so vibrant and green, that's-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Green. Look, it's so bright.
Molly Yeh:
Just screams spring. So could somebody use frozen spinach?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely and frozen peas too. With the frozen spinach make sure you just a thaw it first and squeeze it out really, really well. And you wouldn't even have to, you could just stir it in at the end. Same with the frozen peas. Since I used fresh, I sauteed them for a few minutes, but if you're using frozen, you could just toss that in the frozen spinach and at the end. And that is definitely a way I would make something like this in the winter. Maybe even without the asparagus is kind of maybe even throw some frozen green beans in it or something that I had from the summer, whether I was lucky enough to freeze them myself. Sometimes I go pick peas and so I freeze the good peas for a little while. Oh yeah, we've got a good color. I hope this is coming through.
Molly Yeh:
That's a bright orange.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I was just so excited when I cracked them this morning. I was like, "yes, Julia's watching over our eggs."
Molly Yeh:
Hello, Julia. Have you ever put anything in a quiche that you regret putting in a quiche?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Wow. That's the best question I've maybe been ever asked? I think the only thing I ever regretted and when I say regret you have to bear with me for the story because I regretted it as I was digesting it a little bit, but I did not regret it when I was eating it. I made a very heavily laid in cheese quiche, kind of like think of Julia's cheese souffle kind of a moment, but in a flaky crust. So we had all of that business going on and it was so good. It was so good that I-
Molly Yeh:
I know that feeling.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It was so good. And then as soon as I took the last bite of the second piece, I had made a huge mistake. You know I was like-
Molly Yeh:
Oh, no. What have I done?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
And I will tell you that, that recipe altered to not be quite as decadent. It's still plenty decadent, but it's not quite that much. It is in my book, the cheese lovers quiche. [crosstalk 00:48:25] And I took it down a few notches to make it more...
Molly Yeh:
There is such a thing as too much cheese in a quiche. This is perfect.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm sure there's Bombesquad members who would go to the mat with me on that, about too much cheese.
Molly Yeh:
But you want to be able to taste the egginess and the veggies and the cheese.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
For sure.
Molly Yeh:
In goes the cream.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
And there's milk in here too. So I will say that you can use half and half. If you only had milk, you can just use milk. And we talked about how that might affect the texture. And if you only have cream, you could just use cream too, I'd be good with that. There's definitely, however you want to do that and then we'll season this custard with some salt and pepper too. But that's how easy a quiche custard is, is just some eggs and yeah, so easy peasy.
Molly Yeh:
Amazing.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I will say I would normally let this vegetable mixture cool a little bit more and the only reason is if we put something hot into the crust, there could be a little bit of steam. It could just make the crust a little soggy, but never fear. It would be kind of soggyfing it from the inside and it is going back into the oven.
Molly Yeh:
Soggyfing it.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I think basically it could make it a little bit soggy, but as long as it's not piping hot and literally steaming, it should be fine. Again, we've got that protective cheese layer and anytime you par baked, you've set the structure enough and it's going to go back into the oven and re crisp. So if we're rushing it a little bit this time, but again, if you were doing this for company or like in an imaginary, what would you cook for Julia if she came for dinner situation, you would maybe want to let it cool entirely.
Molly Yeh:
We will get to that question by the way.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
You would definitely let it cool.
Molly Yeh:
Is it a fear that the hot vegetables might start to cook the egg prematurely or you're not concerned with that?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
No, it definitely needs to cool enough that we're not going to cook the egg immediately upon contact, but even just the little bit of time it took for us to whisk the custard is probably enough time for that.
Molly Yeh:
Okay.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
But what we would do is if we pile, you'll see how much veggie is actually in this when we put it in because it comes up to here. And if that's really packed in tight right next to the crust, if it's still steaming that steam won't have anywhere to go except to leach moisture into the crust. So that's really all we do trying to avoid aside from of course, cooking the egg quickly. But if you're doing this at home and you don't want to add it just yet, literally just another five or 10 minutes will probably be enough for this to be ready to go.
Molly Yeh:
Go pick some peas.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Exactly.
Molly Yeh:
You can back pick some lilacs for the table.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Exactly. Find some morels in the woods and all that business.
Molly Yeh:
So this is going in and do you have a rule of thumb if somebody wanted to just switch up the vegetables, are you looking for a level, like an amount of vegetables to fill up into your pie crust before adding your custard mixture?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah, that's a great question. I like a lot of inclusions in quiche, but the main thing to note is that no matter how much you want to put in whether you just want a layer of roasted tomatoes in the bottom, whether you just want some pieces of kale kind of poking out of the top, whatever you do the main thing to be aware of is that the less inclusions, the more of this custard you're going to need. So like this quantity that I'm working with if I took out the asparagus and I took out the spinach, I might need another egg or two to fill this up to the same level.
Molly Yeh:
It's as easy as that. Just oh, just add another egg. Would you want to add a little bit more heavy cream or milk.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I mean, yes, I would, but you also totally wouldn't have to. That's kind of one of those things of personal preference, but usually for every egg, I would just add another tablespoon or two of dairy to help keep that mixture a little bit looser too, all of that.
Molly Yeh:
I have to say, Erin this is such a refreshing approach to baking because there is that perception that baking has to be exactly precise and everything has to be leveled off exactly and no straying but with something like this quiche, there is that wiggle room to make it your own, to have fun with it and also to relax and to enjoy it.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's one of the things that again, if we're talking about making mistakes, we're talking about some of the things about Julia that really is, like I said, it's a huge part of what I took away from her, but it's also if you want to eat well, if you want to cook well, not every day you're going to be able to make the five-course meal with multiple components. And I'm sort of known for being extra with my baked goods from the perspective of, I like to show people a lot. So I'm not just going to make pie I'm going to-
Molly Yeh:
We are all better and more knowledgeable for it Erin.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Thank you. But I also will say that the way that I cook at home, the way that I bake when it's just me and my family and my loved ones, it's a lot more like this. And actually, I haven't formally talked about this yet, but I am working on a new cookbook and the new cookbook is going to be a lot of this kind of stuff. So I'm excited to share that with you guys when the time comes.
Molly Yeh:
When is the release date.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It'll come out next fall.
Molly Yeh:
The comment section is blowing up right now. I am so excited.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I'm not going to release the full topic yet. But what I will say is it's a lot of things it's not just dessert, you can put it that way.
Molly Yeh:
That's exciting.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Very exciting.
Molly Yeh:
Can we talk about the-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Hey, we are ready.
Molly Yeh:
Cheese that you just put on top.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. Let's talk about the cheese because there's two kinds. I put a little more of that Parmesan on top. With quiche I really like Gruyere or something of that nature, but also like a really good sharp cheddar is great. And if you want, I like to use a firmer cheese because then you can get this like graded over the top and it'll brown and golden really beautifully. But one of my other favorite things to do or to use really soft cheeses and just kind of plop them in. So like ricotta or go cheese and then whoever gets the piece with a really big clump, it's like a king cake almost. It's like, "yes, I got the go cheese."
Molly Yeh:
Better than a plastic baby.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah. So there's plenty of cheese on the top. And of course that's the kind of thing also, I had Parmesan on the bottom, I have this cheese on the top if you're not wanting to do the cheese, then you could also leave this off. It's going to be a very flavorful quiche without it. But one of the things that I like that it does is add that little bit of brownness to the surface and almost like a crisp top layer without a top crust.
Molly Yeh:
I'm telling you, I am learning things about quiche that I never could have imagined. I always mix the cheese into my quiche, but the idea of putting it on top to get that crust is brilliant.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
And I think mixing it in is also like when I make a cheese quiche, I would mix it in and put it on top because then it's like... What I like about mixing it in is that it's distributed throughout, which is so lovely. But also with something like this, then you get kind of a similar amount in almost every bite. And then the other thing that I will say, I didn't do it this time, but you know how sometimes people sprinkle sugar on the outside of crust to give it... When I'm making savory pies I do Parmesan on the outside of the crust and it browns and gets crispy and it's just like, oh.
Molly Yeh:
Okay. So for the oven now?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah. I'm going to put this guy in the oven and I'm at a house that's not mine and I've never baked in this oven before I baked the pie this morning and it turned out great. So let me go grab the-
Molly Yeh:
How do you adjust for that? Because, we always tell people to get the thermometers to stick in the oven to make sure that it's accurate. Is that something you pack in your suitcase when you're going to an Airbnb or do you just work on the fly?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I definitely have packed an oven thermometer with me when I've gone to an Airbnb before. I did not this time.
Molly Yeh:
That does not surprise me.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I did not this time. You can test something first and one of the easiest things to do is if you've got a piece of bread or something, like do the toast test, but this was the thing I knew about this oven when I opened it, it appears to me that perhaps this oven has never been used. It is a brand new oven of some sort. I've never seen an oven so clean on the inside except in the store. I knew though, usually a brand new oven is typically fairly even heat. So I did kind of get lucky this time, but pies always have a lot of character. So even if you get a little bit of a toastiness on one part and people ask me about those pie crusts shields for when you're par baking, sometimes those edges can brown more, I usually just use foil.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
But the other thing that I recommend that you need to know a little bit more about baking to get the hang of this, but when your crust say you're baking the quiche and the temperature is 375 or 350, if your crust starts browning too much, you can just knock the temperature down 25 degrees and it's going to take the filling longer to set, but it's going to slow the browning of the crust. So most fillings are going to actually benefit from being baked a little slower in terms of the filling like a custard low and slow is kind of lovely. So I didn't have to do that today. And again, it's out of the pan here.
Molly Yeh:
Could you move it down an oven rack if it's browning too much?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely. So I actually like to bake my pies towards the bottom of the oven to help get the crust crisper. And then at that also does help protect it from being too close to the top and browning too much which is really great too.
Molly Yeh:
Look at that beauty.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Ooh, should I cut him or her.
Molly Yeh:
Yes, you should.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
We'll name her Julia.
Molly Yeh:
So you've let this cool for a little bit because it's cutting nicely.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes. It has been cooling. When do you think I took this out of the oven, Erin? Like two hours ago? Yeah, maybe a little before, maybe two and a half hours. It's been a little bit.
Molly Yeh:
Okay.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
The sturdy pie challenge.
Molly Yeh:
Hello.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
So loaded with veggies. That's really my favorite part about this particular quiche is how loaded with veggies it is.
Molly Yeh:
That's gorgeous. And the veggies stayed so bright and green.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah. That's kind of because they're protected. Okay. Here I'm trying to get to that.
Molly Yeh:
Oh, wow. Okay. Yep. I'm seeing those layers.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
That's the flaky that we like to say.
Molly Yeh:
That's the perfect bite. It's that corner that has extra flakiness, but you're also getting some of the filling, the end bites.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I was going to say if they can put the camera back on my face, I'll eat it in front of all of you and make you mad. Assuming you want that.
Molly Yeh:
Erin, this looks incredible. I wish I could smell it.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
It does smell very rampy in here now, which I'm... So I actually normally eat-
Molly Yeh:
Amazing.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
A lot like pizza and I don't even use a fork, but because this didn't cool all the way and I know I've talked about this spiel a lot, even on here on Cherry Bombe before, but the cooler it is the easier it's going to be a slice. So the firmer it is the more set it's going to be. So typically once it was totally cool, I could just pick it up and eat it like a pizza, but I am going to use a fork today, especially because I don't want to stain my Cherry shirt.
Molly Yeh:
And we're all just going to sit here and watch you.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh, my God.
Molly Yeh:
And live vicariously through you. And just pretend that we're tasting those ramps and the cheese and the crispy cheese on top, and then the Parmesan on the bottom.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
The thing that I like the most is the... Erin's coming. She and other Erin-
Molly Yeh:
Come here Erin. Let's watch two Erins eating quiche.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Two Erins eating quiche.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm saying, hi.
Molly Yeh:
Hi, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm jumping back in. Hello. I want to ask some of the audience questions, but Molly-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
You had a question look like you're about to ask the question. So go ahead.
Molly Yeh:
Well, I wanted to get to the question about what you would serve this with if you were serving it to Julia.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I would serve this with a humongous really acidic green salad. A very elaborate cheese plate. And what else, what else would I have with it? Honestly that would probably be-
Molly Yeh:
What's dessert?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh, dessert. That's a great question. Dessert I think would be just because it is the season and it would go, well, I wonder if Julia would roll her eyes if I made her two pies because I think I would make her, my pier rhubarb pie.
Kerry Diamond:
That sounds like the perfect meal, Erin.
Molly Yeh:
I'm inviting myself over for that meal.
Kerry Diamond:
I wouldn't worry about the double pie situation. I put on a head wrap cause I was-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Welcome. Join us.
Kerry Diamond:
So now I feel much better. Okay. I've got a few questions for you. Erin again, mind blown. Every time I see one of your pie demos, I never even knew you could pick up a pie and have it be so sturdy until I have learned all of this from you. So thank you for just being a game-changer for all of us. Your book is coming out. Did you say fall of next year?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah. Fall of 2022. I'm still writing it so next fall.
Kerry Diamond:
So long. We have to wait so long.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah. It is a long time. And I haven't even told anyone else about it yet, but I got to tell the Bombe squad.
Molly Yeh:
Breaking news.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
This is like friends we got to talk about it.
Kerry Diamond:
And then Molly, you have a book coming out in the fall don't you?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Molly Yeh:
No. Same as Erin. Fall 2022.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Next year? Oh, we're going to have a party.
Molly Yeh:
Both party?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Both party.
Kerry Diamond:
We can host the party if you let us.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I love this plan.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Well, now we have something to look forward to in of fall 2022. Okay. Molly, you had mentioned that you saw the Julia child exhibit at the Smithsonian. Can you tell us about your visit?
Molly Yeh:
It was this feeling that I didn't expect it. I got emotional. Her kitchen is preserved in the Smithsonian. You see her pegboard that Paul built for her and you can peek in at different angles and it's truly magical. Her pots and pans are there. It was a while ago, but my gosh, it took my breath away. And then I also got to see her kitchen in France which was very similar because it also had the pegboard. And you could really feel her. It was this iconic space and I would highly recommend checking it out at the Smithsonian or going to La Peetch and taking a class there because you can take cooking classes in her old house in France. It's-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
So amazing.
Molly Yeh:
Magical.
Kerry Diamond:
And the Smithsonian just announced they're reopening. So all the museums that make up the Smithsonian have been closed, but they re-opening in May. So if anyone wants to go visit, you can go online and check that out. Okay. Erin, of course we have a million questions.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Hit me.
Kerry Diamond:
A lot of them are about tools and techniques. Folks want to know your preference for a pie pan. Material and brand if you don't mind saying.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
If you really want to do the sturdy pie challenge, one of the best pie pans is metal pie plate from USA Pan. Lots of different stores sell it. King Arthur Baking sells it, Williams Sonoma sells a lots of people do. And it's actually also one that I like to recommend because it averages retail about 15 bucks. So I know a lot of pie plates that we covet are the really nice, expensive ceramic ones, but metal is one of the most nonstick. So some ceramic are really non-stick, but others that have a more matte appearance can get stuck. So if you're really wanting to like triumphantly lift the pie out of the pie plate, that $15 pie pan is the one for you.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. How about a rolling pin? Do you have a rolling pin you recommend?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I do. Oh gosh, what's the name of our rolling pin guy? I'm so sorry. I always... Tomnuk, Tomnuk, T-O-M-N-U-K. They're beautiful, tapered, rolling pins, handmade. They come in different woods and finishes. It is a French style pin without handles. And I do think that rolling pins are personal preference. I know lots of great bakers who use pins with handles. So, if that feels better to you then that's... The other one that I will recommend again, because of price point, because the Tomnuk one it's a fine maker kind of product so he makes them all himself. But I really liked the one from Food52 as well, because it comes with the silicone rings on the end to help guide your thickness. And it's a much lower price at like $40. So that's a really nice kind of starter piece where you're getting extra for your buck also.
Kerry Diamond:
Great. Molly, are you a French rolling pin or handles?
Molly Yeh:
I love French rolling pins. The one that I use is seven inches. I like the control that I can get, but all French all the way. Just the taper.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah, I love the taper.
Molly Yeh:
So much control.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Melissa Hellman would like to know Erin, why roll your dough in a rectangle when your pie pan is round? Why not roll it round?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Good question. Part of that is because I was going quickly as not rotating it quite often enough, but the other reason is this dough was folded. I tried to get it back into a round shape, but you know how they always say, if you start with a circle, you'll end with a circle. I kind of started with more of a rectangle shape because I had folded the dough. So it was rounded I tucked the corners under, but as I rolled it out, it has a tendency to do that. And because I was enjoying chatting with Molly so much. Normally one of the ways that I get to avoid that is by rotating the dough often while I'm rolling it out and when you see it starting to square off, just pushing back to make more of that circular shape, it's another advantage of the tapered pin you can just apply pressure where you need to, instead of over the whole dough.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, this is a fun comment from Paula. My mom baked a ton of pies for a restaurant every day and used a stockinette sleeve over the rolling pin. What was that all about? Do you know?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Oh, interesting. That could have been a nonstick thing actually to attempt to use less flour, some kind of protection depending on the material of the pin, as the fat warms up it really likes to stick to the pins, it likes to stick to the counter. But a lot of bakers like to use as little flour as possible because the more flour you're using, obviously the more is it getting incorporated into the dough and for pie dough in particular, that can make it a little bit more brittle. It can make it a little tougher in the end. So, that could've just been a non-sick thing. Yeah. Someone in the comments is saying, it's nonstick my grandma did that too.
Kerry Diamond:
How about spring form pans? Can you make a quiche in a spring form pan?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Heck yes. In fact, there's a whole section in the Book on Pie about how pie plates are just one of the only things you can bake in. I bake pies in tart pans. I bake pies and cake pans. I bake pies in cast iron skillets. As long as it's got a crust and a filling, it's a pie. So spring form pan is a great way to go.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. And since you said you were using scallions in the recipe, but you had beautiful ramp so you used them instead ratios, can use the same amount?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I actually used about two ramps for every one scallion because the ramps I had were kind of smaller, but if you had ramps that were the size of scallions, you could kind of just do one-to-one. Also, if you've got ramps, you may want to use more of them just because it's so fun when they're in season. So you could also take the leaks out and use a whole bunch of ramps. That would be delicious too.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Molly wants to know for this veggie quiche, would a little bit of fresh lemon juice or zest help or might it interfere with the egg custard?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Definitely not. You could definitely put a little bit of that flavor in there. I would say I would find it more favorable to add it to the vegetables and then put the vegetables in and pour the custard over. Because of course, if you do add some directly to the egg custard, it could be problematic in that sense. But if you add it into the vegetables, it shouldn't be a problem.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. And then we've got a few dough questions of course. If you use sugar as a pie weight, is there anything you can do with the sugar after it bakes?
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yeah, absolutely. That's Stella Park’s method, it's one of the best out there in terms of, that panicking of, I don't have pie weights or I don't have beans, I don't have whatever, because if you're making a pie, you often would have sugar. So I love her technique for doing that. I know she uses foil instead of parchment, because it's a little bit sturdier since you need so much sugar that it can be quite heavy. And the sugar is totally safe to use afterwards in any application you want. And I would definitely recommend checking out Stella's work since she has lots of recipes that specifically use it, the toasted sugar.
Kerry Diamond:
What's your pie weight preference?
Molly Yeh:
Oh, I love the Stella Parks toasting sugar, but I probably go for the expired dried beans.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, Erin last question. What knife are you using? Because, I know we talked a lot about how to cut. You just go in so fearlessly with the knife on the pie.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
This is a Material brand knife material, I think you guys know some of them. My husband loves to sharpen knives. I married a good one and he just like loves keeping them sharp. So the other thing people are always like, "what knife is that? What knife is that?" And I always say, in this case, I do love this knife it's a great knife, but in this case, it's not just the knife it's my husband, Derek.
Kerry Diamond:
You know it's funny you were quoting Julia Child earlier and I was just thinking of you and how fearlessly you go in and you cut the pies. And I do it so gingerly, which I think was the problem. There's that wonderful Julia quote, where she says you have to have the courage of your convictions for all things.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Cooking, life and pies. I think that was the tossing potatoes episode where if you haven't seen-
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
She is tossing potatoes and they spill all over and she blames herself and said she did not have the courage of her convictions to toss the potatoes properly.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
I know. And I love how she puts that back on herself. And I was actually just saying this, this morning that my real attachment to Julia now that I have done some things on camera, which is not anything I ever thought I was going to do necessarily. I'm not afraid of messing up the same way that I think I would have been if I didn't watch a lot of Julia. Because messing up actually some of the mistakes, I actually highlight mistakes in my videos because I think that, that's one of the best points to learn from. And she has that great quote too about it's like drama is very important in the kitchen and anything can be dramatic if you do it right even a pancake. And I love that because it's like anything we could just make like the most romantic dinner and just make a waffle and it could be the best thing.
Kerry Diamond:
That is true. That is true. All right, Molly, I'm going to let you have the last word. You asked Erin what she would serve Julia, what would you serve Julia if she was coming to the farm?
Molly Yeh:
Oh my gosh if Julia was coming to the farm, I would obviously go into my local fishmonger and get a whole monkfish. I love the idea of quiche. Definitely something from the farm. So our rhubarb is coming up. We have our apple trees. We have the eggs from our chickens. So my gosh, I would be so scared. I'd be very nervous but I would want to showcase local food. I'd make her a hot dish.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, she would love your hot dish. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you two are two of the most delightful human beings I know and I know the Bombe squad knows. So thank you so much for doing this together. And I hope we can get to see you cook together again, hopefully before fall 2022.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
And in person maybe then.
Kerry Diamond:
And in person-
Molly Yeh:
Next year in real life.
Kerry Diamond:
That would be amazing. Well, thank you again to the two of you. Thank you to everyone out there who watched this wonderful demo. It was so much fun. The Julia Jubilee is almost over, which is so sad. We do have a panel happening at 4:00 PM EST for all you cookbook lovers out there. It's going to be about cookbooks from Julia's time to today. So be sure to tune in if you love cookbooks or a cookbook collector. And then tomorrow we have our final panel with John moderating that's all about Julia's legacy. So I would love for all of you to tune in. I think that's three o'clock tomorrow. Yes, three o'clock EST tomorrow. We have a wonderful panel with folks like Tanya Holland and Dorie Greenspan and you don't want to miss that.
Kerry Diamond:
Lastly, I want to thank our friends at Whole Foods Market for supporting Cherry Bombe and all of our Jubilees. You've been remarkable and your support is so appreciated. And don't forget I want you all to look for the Source for Good logo next time you are at a Whole Foods. All right. That's it for now everybody. You're the bomb head over to Cherry Bombe. Check out the rest of the schedule and you can find Erin's recipe there as well. I know a lot of you were asking about that. Okay. Thanks everyone. Bye, Erin. Bye, Molly.
Erin Jeanne McDowell:
Bon appetit.