Valerie Chang Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe magazine.
For today's episode, we're airing a conversation I had with Chef Valerie Chang of Maty's Restaurant in Miami. Valerie is a big star on the Miami food scene, and I am a big, big fan of hers. Back in November 2019, a few years before Maty's opened, I had the pleasure of eating at Valerie's family's Itamae when it was a counter in a food hall in the Miami Design District. This is not an exaggeration, but it was one of the best meals of my life. It was seafood and sushi-focused with tons of bright flavors and colors and herbs and sauces. I still think about it to this day. I can't wait for you to meet Chef Valerie and learn more about her, so stay tuned.
We're so elated from this year's Jubilee conference. It was such a beautiful day, so I'm excited to share that we have a second Jubilee in the works. We'll be hosting our first ever Wine Country Jubilee, this coming October 26th and 27th in California. If you'd like to be notified when tickets go on sale, you can sign up at cherrybomb.com. The link is in our show notes.
Today's episode is presented by Kerrygold. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand, famous for its beautiful cheese and butter made with milk from Irish grass-fed cows. I am a Kerrygold super fan and I had the good fortune to travel to Ireland with the Kerrygold team a few years ago. I met farmers, cheese makers, the folks who inspect the butter and grade the cheese, and I even met the cows. It was an unforgettable trip and I loved getting to know more about the world of Kerrygold. I learned the differences between the Kerrygold cheeses and I'm going to share some of my favorites with you. There's Kerrygold Aged Cheddar, classic and rich, Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar is sharp and bold thanks to an extra year of aging. Kerrygold Dubliner is a robust aged cow's milk cheese that's nutty, sharp, and sweet all at once. Then there's Kerrygold Skellig, which is tangy and crumbly with a butterscotch-like sweetness. And one more to shout out Kerrygold Cashel Blue Farmhouse Cheese. It's a perfect blue in my book with that signature creaminess and tang, I love it for everything from snacking to salads. I highly recommend visiting Ireland, but you don't need a trip to Ireland to figure out your favorite Kerrygold cheese. Just a trip to your local supermarket, gourmet shop, or cheese shop. Visit kerrygoldusa.com to learn more about Kerrygold's iconic cheese varieties, to browse recipes, and to find a store near you.
Today's show is also supported by Johnny Walker. Johnny Walker is the world's number one Scotch whiskey brand and has been responsible for lots of happy hours and convivial moments for more than 200 years. That tradition continues today in Edinburgh where Dr. Emma Walker, Johnny Walker's first female master blender, leads a passionate team of whisky makers. I've had the pleasure of interviewing Emma and she is so dedicated to her craft. I know some of you love having a well-stocked liquor cabinet or bar cart at home, so two options to consider. First, Johnny Walker Black Label. Its nose as Emma would say, features the old scent of fruit, with a touch of sweet vanilla. Your tongue will pick up creamy toffee, sweet fruit and spice, followed by a warming smoky finish. If you want to experience the pinnacle in Scotch-making, there's Johnny Walker Blue Label. Its nose features waves of spice that give way to vanilla and honey. You'll experience notes that build from caramel to hazelnut to dark chocolate, then a luxuriously long warming signature smoky finish. You can learn more about Johnny Walker blended scotch whisky at johnnywalker.com. You'll find a deep dive into the brand's history and legacy, cocktail recipes, and info on the Johnny Walker Prince Street brand and tasting room experience in Edinburgh. I'm putting that place on my bucket list right now. Of course, always drink responsibly.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Valerie Chang, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Valerie Chang:
Thank you for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
We're in Miami and we are here to celebrate Valerie, who is one of the top chef talents in the country, and we are so lucky to have you on the show, finally.
Valerie Chang:
It's my honor, anything Cherry Bombe.
Kerry Diamond:
Maybe you've heard me talk over the years about one of the best meals I've had literally, and I'm not just saying this because you're sitting in front of me. One of the best meals I've literally had was at Itamae and I went there with Carla Hoyos. Had I met you the night before? I can't remember. Had I met you?
Valerie Chang:
I think we met two days before when you were in the tour.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, so we came in and you just proceeded to send us every single thing that was on the menu, and I had never had food like that before in my life. It was so beautiful and fresh and colorful. I took pictures of everything. I still look at them sometimes and it just blew my mind.
Valerie Chang:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you tell people what you served now that I've got them all excited about this food?
Valerie Chang:
I think you got all of the ceviches and all the tiraditos we made and all the rolls we had. It's my love language. I think when people come to visit me and they want to have dinner, I'm like, "I hope you came really hungry because whether you're two or eight, you're eating the whole menu." Especially when I know you're not going to be here for a long time, I just want you to taste everything. I need you to taste this and tell me what you think and I want you to enjoy all of it and not miss anything because I just don't know when I'm going to get you back.
Kerry Diamond:
The economics of that are not very good, Valerie Chang.
Valerie Chang:
They're not. They're not, but the love is.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes, yes.
Valerie Chang:
The feeling is there.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell everyone about the cuisine you specialize in.
Valerie Chang:
My dad's a chef. My brother's a chef. I'm a chef and we specialize in Peruvian food, but my brother specializes in Peruvian Japanese food, so does my dad. I specialize now more in contemporary Peruvian food because part of the journey of understanding and growing as a chef is understanding that I left Peru when I was 10. I'm 32 now. These 22 years, which I've gone to Peru almost every single year, multiple times, I'm no longer the girl that lives in Peru.
I am somebody who left my country and that's a journey in itself, had to adapt to a different city, which is another journey to itself, and I can only look at food through those eyes. It took me a while to understand that and to respect that and to love that about myself, and now I understand that is the only way I can look at food because that is my journey. To be a chef is such a personal journey. You're putting yourself out there every single day. You have a hundred people eating it and then telling you whether they love it or hate it. Everything we do in our foundation is Peruvian food, but we've adapted through the journeys that we've gone through.
Kerry Diamond:
The family has three different concepts.
Valerie Chang:
Yes, so Itamae which is my brother's, which is the first one we had. Now it's going to be called Itamae Ayo, which means blue in Japanese because it's focused on the ocean. That one specializes in Peruvian Japanese food, which is called Nikkei.
Kerry Diamond:
The type of cuisine is called Nikkei.
Valerie Chang:
Yes. It's also a group of people. You can also call them Nikkei, the Japanese immigrants in Peru.
Kerry Diamond:
Is that your heritage?
Valerie Chang:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Is there Japanese?
Valerie Chang:
No, we're Chinese Peruvian.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay.
Valerie Chang:
Yeah, I know.
Kerry Diamond:
So how did you come to specialize in that kind of food?
Valerie Chang:
Listen, when you immigrate, the only places that are going to give you a job when you haven't figured out your papers and you really need to work and who are always desperate are restaurants. So my dad got a job as a busboy in a Japanese restaurant, and then the rest is history. And then we have B-side, which is our fast casual sushi concept, mainly rolls focus on all Peruvian ingredients, so all the sauces have a Peruvian ingredient. You won't get a very traditional Japanese roll there. You'll get, for instance, a fried fish roll with avocado, with a white fish dip, with a acevichadas. We make Leche de Tigre with aioli. The most popular second role is a mixture of tuna, salmon and aji amarillo aioli. We really put our identity on what we think classic rolls would be. And then we have Maty's, which specializes in contemporary Peruvian food.
Kerry Diamond:
And that's your baby?
Valerie Chang:
It's a baby that I lead, but I think it's all of our babies.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, okay.
Valerie Chang:
I think when I first started, I took the challenge. We started growing and going. I really needed my brother to support me in the journey, whether it was to make me see the things that I couldn't see because I was so in it or whether it was just to give me the confidence that everything was going to be okay.
Kerry Diamond:
And your two restaurants are going to be side by side?
Valerie Chang:
Yes, right next to each other and we're really excited because we've done a lot of growth in the past years, my brother and I are maturing. We're a little older and we really the journey of being right next to each other while also creating a space where each of us can be authentically who each of us are.
Kerry Diamond:
How do you divide who does what? Obviously Maty's is yours. Itamae is your brother's, but how do you divide all the millions of other things that you have to do to run restaurants?
Valerie Chang:
You surround yourself with a really good team that believes in your journey. It's crazy to think, and I am really processing this, which is no matter what restaurant you're in, no matter how big your team is not, if it's 30, 50, 10, those are people who just believe in your dream. It's crazy, honestly. That takes me back a bunch. That grounds me a lot because it's like all these people are here. Yes, it's their job, but it's your dream. It's a company that functions based on your dream and everyone's here to make your dream come to life.
Kerry Diamond:
All the back end stuff though is shared though, right?
Valerie Chang:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Valerie Chang:
This morning left my house 6:30, was at the gym, left the gym, and we were on a finance meeting for about two hours.
Kerry Diamond:
And how involved is your dad still?
Valerie Chang:
He's very involved, but he's also getting ready to let us handle it ourselves. And now we're understanding, Nando and I, our dynamic with each other, our strength and our weaknesses, and before I used to want to prove to him so bad how I could handle things where now I understand that some things he handles better. The best thing for us to do is to let him handle these things and let me just look from the side and still learn and vice versa.
Kerry Diamond:
Which areas are your strength?
Valerie Chang:
I'm a super big picture person and I've learned that through almost four years of therapy. I look and think about the big picture. Nando is so disciplined and he feels things intensely that sometimes he gets concerned because I react very like, "It's okay." I have to think about it. Something I didn't do before was think too much. I would react and therapy's taught me to think. That's one of the strengths I have, which I'm always like, "Hey, listen, I know this seems like we're on fire and we are on fire, but this is also going to settle down. This will calm down and we need to think about the big picture and the little things we just need to let them write out."
I hope that's what I bring to him. Because I usually bring a lot of problems too. I'm like, "Hey, listen, I'm not really sure how we're doing this," or, "This is going on," or my God, the water pump is leaking and I'm oblivious to it. I see it, but I just am like, "Oh, big picture in the back pocket. This is something for me to deal with tomorrow." And he's like, "No, this is something you deal with today." May have disagreements with a manager and I'm like, "Oh, not today. I just need to focus on service today," and he's like, "No, this is something we have to deal with because if it's not today, I will be tomorrow," so we play off.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to go back to the fact that there are three chefs in the family, because I'm sure some people clock that earlier and were like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. You got to go back to the three chefs." How does that happen? How did you and your brother Nando wind up following in your dad's footsteps?
Valerie Chang:
Not intentional. My dad actually did not want us to be in the restaurant business. My dad is a business major. He had a shoe store in Peru and an ice cream shop. He did not want us to be in the restaurant industry because he saw how intense it is and how much you have to sacrifice. But he also would take us to caterings and say, "Hey, you want to make a couple of dollars? I have this catering. Why don't you guys come with me?" Nando was peeling potatoes at a restaurant when he was 10. I wanted to be in fashion. I love clothes. My dad has shoe stores. I was born to love shoes. It's my birthright.
Kerry Diamond:
Shoes and ice cream Sounds like the best combination in the world.
Valerie Chang:
Exactly. I love both.
Kerry Diamond:
I love both too.
Valerie Chang:
And I wanted to be in fashion. I really struggled in school. I also loved food. I had worked at that point with my dad a little bit in restaurants, and part-times then I was having a hard time in college, a really hard time in college, and then my college decided to open a culinary school. My friend and I think we were very bored and young. We were like, "Well, we both really like cooking and we can't seem to figure out what we want to do for a living, so should we go to culinary school?" And we both went to our parents. Well, at this point we were in second year of college, and my dad said to me, "Absolutely not. I don't have money. I've been paying for your college for two years. You've been doing international relations for two years." I was just getting my basics.
He said, "But I can't afford for you to switch." And the first semester of culinary school ends up being about seven grand. But I was like, "I don't want to be in international relations anymore and I think I want to be a chef." He said, "No," and I did the next thing that a very good Latina granddaughter knows how to do, which is call their abuelita and speak to her and tell her the troubles my father was giving me by not letting me change and follow my dreams. My grandma Maty, who I named the restaurant after, she was one of eight, the oldest one. She graduated high school, but she was never allowed to go to college because she had to take care of her siblings. And her siblings, almost all of them went to college. It was just her and she was probably the smartest one out of all of them. And her dream was for us to go to college. So I was like, "This is going to be perfect." So I grabbed at that time my international card, I called my grandmother. I said, listen, "I want to-"
Kerry Diamond:
Is she still back in Peru?
Valerie Chang:
Yeah. I said, "I want to go to culinary school. My dad won't let me chase my dreams and this is what I want to do when I finally found myself," and being as generous and the blessing she was to me, she said, "I can't give you the seven, but I can give you five." And I said, "Okay, I can round up the two." So I spoke to my dad and I said, "Well, if I was going this semester, you still would have to pay my tuition, so give me the money for that." I didn't want to even tell him. I was like, "I figured out the money." My dad's like, "You didn't, you're 18. You didn't figure out $5,000." But at that point you feel like you're invincible and you're like, "Yeah, I figured it out. How do you know?" He knew and he was like-
Kerry Diamond:
You were feisty back then, Valerie.
Valerie Chang:
Still feisty. And I did it and I went two semesters. I wanted more. I needed to work. And I spoke to one of my culinary teachers and he was like, "You're going to be okay. You don't need this. Go to kitchens. Go work. Go spend time in restaurants. You got this." I never looked back. Now in retrospect, I'm like, "I regret that. I should have just finished."
Kerry Diamond:
Because there were some basics you didn't really have a handle on yet?
Valerie Chang:
Because every stage in your life deserves to be a stage in your life. And I was in that stage where I should have been in college having fun, hanging out, not to head down working. And at that point I was so young that I could work 16 hours a day and just have a great time after work. And there's so many classes in school that you take for granted.
Kerry Diamond:
But your grandmother's investment did pay off because she had no idea you were going to have an award-winning restaurant named after her one day. That's amazing.
Valerie Chang:
Yeah, I had no idea either. I had no idea. I struggled with the name for a while. I didn't know what I wanted it to be. I didn't know if I wanted it to be a representation of my bond with my brother. I love both of my grandmothers, but I lived with my father's mother. I lived with my grandma Maty for a lot of years. I also wanted it to be a strong name. So her name is Martha. I thought about calling and Martha, but Nando, this is where we come in, we're really good with each other. He told me, "Why would you call it what you haven't called her?" We never called her Martha. We called her Maty. I have it tattooed in my arm, her signature, when she used to write me letters. He said, "I think you would make a mistake by not naming her what your connection with her was," and then Maty's was born.
Kerry Diamond:
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So let's talk about all these accolades. What is drawing this energy to you? Why are people so excited about what you're doing?
Valerie Chang:
I don't know.
Kerry Diamond:
I knew you were going to say that.
Valerie Chang:
I'm actually very shy about all these things. Whenever any of these things come out, I get a lot of phone calls, I get a lot of comments, and I really just center myself and hang out with my siblings or something like that because I feel very vulnerable. I'm grateful because it keeps the food on the table, but it's a beautiful thing, but it's really hard when everyone's looking at you.
Kerry Diamond:
It sounds like you have a lot of humility around this. I've talked to plenty of people over the years who feel that they deserve the awards.
Valerie Chang:
I don't see things like that because what I do, I do it because I love it. I do it because I was born for it. Everything else that comes, comes as a surprise to me. That's what maybe draws people to me. You think I ever in my life thought that I would have a James Beer nomination or be in any magazine? You have to really know me so well to understand that no, it was a surprise. Every single time one of those letters was coming, I was like, "What?" I'm like, "What?" Because at that moment, I thought I was doing it all wrong. It felt like I was doing it all wrong.
It felt like I was in the deep struggle of figuring out this restaurant, which I was, which I am. So for me, I don't know. It's been a sweet surprise. Even when the noms came out earlier, I got a text from a friend. I was getting out of the gym. She's like, "Congrats." I'm like, "I know. I was so happy to cook with Action Bronson. You won't believe it. It was incredible. He's an incredible human. I'm shocked." She's like, "What are you talking about?" I'm like, "What do you mean? Isn't that why you're congratulating me? That was really cool for me." She's like, "No, you just got nominated." I'm like, "What?" It's been like that the whole time.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about the food. Walk us through the menu a little bit and tell folks what's on the menu. What's so special?
Valerie Chang:
I think the first year of our restaurant, you really are in the first year of dating. We're getting to know each other. We're feeling who we are going to be as a couple. There's an idea of what I wanted Maty's to be. There's an idea of what the people wanted Maty's to be, my idea of what I wanted to be, and then there's what Maty is going to be. And the restaurant tells you, with time it starts showing you what it's going to be, and usually it's a little far-fetched from what you wanted it to be. So I work really closely with my farmers of relationships that I've had for years. You look at the first part of the menu, which is all your raw bar, because that is to the Changs. At every one of our restaurants, you're going to see tiraditos, the ceviches, which I think captured a lot of people when we started.
And then we go into a vegetable section, which for me are my mid-courses. But talking to some people, they're like, "They're not really mid-courses, Val. They're vegetables, you still need the mid-courses." I'm like, "Oh my God," when I thought I had it. To me that was the mid. And they're vegetables that are seasonal, and most of the time I'm trying to really let, the vegetable's not trying to be anything but the vegetable. We have a Choclo, which is our charred corn, and it's corn three ways. We have a cabbage, some beautiful Caraflex cabbages in Peru. There's a street food called anticuchos, which are skewers. My dad being the very traditional Peruvian man, he is, he was calling me every day like, "Hey, Val, when are you going to put anticucho on the menu? When are you going to put an anticucho?"
So when I got these beautiful cabbages and I tried it, I'm like, "There it is. I don't need to put a traditional anticucho on the menu, but this cabbage can speak to that." And we turned this cabbage into that. We also have some beautiful gem lettuces that are growing in Homestead with a little tijina aji amarillo sauce from my times of working for Mike Solow. Right now we just took some beautiful purple broccolini off the menu with a Jimmy Nardello huancaina, so you go into the vegetables and then you go into your main courses. All the main courses are meant to be shared. The one that everybody loves is the whole fish with an aji amarillo Beurre blanc.
Kerry Diamond:
Why does everybody love that?
Valerie Chang:
The sauce. It's a traditional Beurre blanc base. But what we've done differently is we grab aji amarillos, which are Peruvian yellow peppers. We confit them, we make them into a paste, and we blend that into the Beurre blanc and to add a little bit of the acidity, we add Leche de Tigre, which is the traditional sauce that we use to make ceviche. It's super buttery, but it's got that heat and it's got that citrus at the same time. So I think people are really, they really do love it. We go through so many of them, so many fishes a week.
Kerry Diamond:
What kind of fish is it?
Valerie Chang:
We use a dorad, which we get from the Mediterranean, but it's a fish that we love the fat content in it, and also we eat it a lot in Peru, so we felt like it was the appropriate one.
Kerry Diamond:
What's popular for the raw bar?
Valerie Chang:
So the most popular thing on the raw bar is going to be a scallop ceviche. So we do a scallop ceviche, and in the mix of the scallop ceviche, we have a burnt Serrano sauce. We have finger lines, we have crispy garlic, pepper, salt, and then we make it into a little ball and put it right in the center of the plate. And then we shave grapes, one, one, one. We stack them all the way till it goes to the top and covers the whole scallop. And then we made a cilantro Leche de Tigre, and then we put cilantro oil and Huacatay oil, which is an Indian herb. That dish, it's very funny because we were working on it. I had gotten some grapes we were playing, and then I said, "Well, guys, let's..." Every dish that I've ever made, I start with the idea of the sauce.
Kerry Diamond:
Really?
Valerie Chang:
And then I go backwards. I have two incredible sous chefs, Juliana and Luciana, who are there with me through the whole journey. I can tell them, "Hey, I'm feeling this, this, and this," and they go after it.
Kerry Diamond:
So you start with the idea of the sauce for almost everything you do?
Valerie Chang:
Definitely driven by the sauces more than anything.
Kerry Diamond:
More than the proteins, more than the seasonal produce?
Valerie Chang:
Yes. Yes. I don't know why my brain works like that. We wanted to make the cilantro leche because we knew we liked the cilantro leche, but we were having an issue how fast the cilantro were oxidized. We didn't want to add any chemicals. So we started playing and we figured out how to add oil to it and keep it that bright green. And then we were like, "Oh, okay, well, we love scallops. I think we should put scallops on the menu. Okay, scallops great." And then we were like, I had gotten these beautiful grapes. We're like, "Grapes. Bye." We were having so much fun. So we put out this dish. We're like, "Okay, it's good. Let's see how it does." And then it became the most popular dish on the raw bar. And they look at me and they're like, "Do you understand how many grapes we shave a day? Do you understand how many grapes we shave a week?" But I'm so happy that people love it.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God, that's so funny. The shaving of the grapes. So if you want to go work for Valerie, you're better be prepared to-
Valerie Chang:
There's a lot of shaving of grapes.
Kerry Diamond:
... shave some grapes. So the raw bar isn't what people think. Just to put out beautiful pieces of raw fish is a skill, is a major skill. You are manipulating things and lots ingredients.
Valerie Chang:
Yes, I guess for us, raw bar is because everything is raw.
Kerry Diamond:
Got it.
Valerie Chang:
It's not a traditional raw bar. Even our oysters are dressed with aji amarillo, Leche de Tigre, and Huacatay oil. Everything is dressed. Nothing is being served at its natural state with something on the side.
Kerry Diamond:
You started to walk us through the mains. So there's dorad. What else is on the main menu?
Valerie Chang:
The next favorite dish is an ox tail saltado. Lomo Saltado is a beef dish of the Chinese influence in Peru, and you saute on the wok, you add onions, you add tomato, you add cilantro, you add aji limo, it's soy based, and then you serve it usually on top of french fries. And this is a dish that you can find at almost every Peruvian restaurant, and this is also a dish that you eat growing up at home. We had tested this recipe a very long time ago, a couple of years ago for a dinner party. We wanted to do an ox tail saltado, and that's what we did.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's continue on food for a second. My favorite, dessert. What's on your dessert menu?
Valerie Chang:
Just one dessert. I am terrible at desserts.
Kerry Diamond:
Even though there's this ice cream legacy that you have?
Valerie Chang:
It didn't pass it on to me. It passed on to me the eating. Once a week I find myself in an ice cream shop like, "All right, let's see what ice cream I want to have today."
Kerry Diamond:
I bet you have great ice cream down here.
Valerie Chang:
We have great ice cream. So we have these sweet potato and butternut squash donuts, very traditional street food. It's called Picadones. Very traditional street food of Peru, very nostalgic. And that's what we do for right now. My sous chefs are in the process of developing more desserts because I hear you people, you ask me for this. I get yelled at every day. They're like, "One dessert?" I'm like, "Listen, this isn't easy dessert to do either." We make the batter, then you have to let it ferment to the perfect point, and then you have to refrigerate it. And when you come out, you have to knead the dough per order, and then you stretch it, you make a perfect round, and then you throw it into the fryer. Then you're making circuits with it, so the hole stays nice, and then you flip it again. So it's also not just a dessert that's like, "Here, whatever." It's a labor of love.
Kerry Diamond:
Talk to me about hospitality. All your ideas about hospitality, do they come from your father? Where do they come from? Because you're not just a chef, you're a restaurateur.
Valerie Chang:
I think I'm still identifying that because I've just really started to step into that role of, "Yeah, I'm not just a chef, so I have to really think things a little bit through." I think we're still in the process of figuring that out. We as a group, I was actually telling everybody yesterday, I'm like, "Listen guys, we're like a drama club." We were talking pre-shift, "We're like the Maty's Drama Club." We belong to a high school or a college, and we're the drama club and everything we do, there has to be a performance behind it. From the way you greet, from the way you drop off food, from the way you remove food, from the way you explain food, from the moment you smile.
We are a drama club and we need to start really owning up to that performance every time people come. And it doesn't matter what's going on in your life outside because everybody has something going on. But I think what I'm focusing right now is that performance. We need to perform for the guests. This is what they're here for. This is what they pay for. This is why they step out of their house. This is why they turn their car on. This is our responsibility, is to give them the best performance we can. And that's what I'm working through right now, understanding that, "Yeah, we're like a play."
Kerry Diamond:
It wasn't until I worked in restaurants that I realized the connection to theater.
Valerie Chang:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And how really the second you opened that door, it's curtains up.
Valerie Chang:
I was telling them, I'm like, guys, "We are a play." We were talking about reviews, because now the guest doesn't need to leave a comment card. It doesn't necessarily need to go to Google. They can through their app, just leave a review about how it was and they can put words behind them. So I was talking to some of my biggest hitters, and then I realized it's a performance. Because as I was reading some of these reviews, some of these servers were getting hit because our hostess wasn't that inviting. And then I'm like, "Yeah, because we're just a team and we're a play, and if everybody just doesn't act." It doesn't matter what's going on in my day, the moment someone's like, "Hey, table 11 wants to speak to you," I almost go to every table that ever asks for me. I know what my duty is, right?
Every time I go to a table, usually I would say 90, 95% of the time, I'm having that great of a day. And I'm like, "How's it going? I'm so excited you're here. Thank you." And I listen and I hear them, and I can't say it in enough words how grateful and thankful I am that they chose to come and support our restaurant. And for those 5% days that I'm like, "Oh, what a day. Printer's not working. Someone's late. Someone else is calling out. They forgot to order something," and I'm like, "Oh, I love this day so much," I still understand and carry the responsibility to show up at that table and leave that behind. And I might just turn around and go into a very serious face right after. And they laugh at me for this sometimes. They're like, "What?" You're all upset, you get to there, and you're like, "Hi."
But I understand that that's what you're here for. You're just here to get a good meal and let it be exactly what you're here for. You're here to spend your money wisely and get what you're spending on and experience something and take your troubles away and take your bad day away. That's more what I'm trying to drill everybody. Another thing I think we work really hard of is being authentic and real and apologetic when we need to. I really try to teach the team, I'm not afraid to go to a table and say, "I'm sorry. I did not fire that ticket. I am the reason why your food's not out here yet."
But I'm also teaching them to go and say sorry when it's their fault. You got to go there and tell the guests that you forgot because that's the truth. And the guests will understand it instead of giving them the runaround like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, the kitchen must be-" That's not enough of an answer. You need to let the guests know that you're real, that the mistakes happen, but you acknowledge them, so you're here to solve them. So I think those are the two things we really are working on.
Kerry Diamond:
I love the drama club analogy. I think that's going to resonate with a lot of our listeners. All of us can relate to being part of the drama club, even if we weren't in the drama club.
Valerie Chang:
And five minutes later, two of them were going at it yesterday, and I'm looking at them, I'm like, "Definitely a drama club." I'm like, "Guys."
Kerry Diamond:
The other kind of drama.
Valerie Chang:
"Guys," I'm like, "What is it?" And they're like, "Well, he's not-" I'm like, "Just listen to each other and learn to communicate and speak to each other respectfully. I just finished saying-"
Kerry Diamond:
Maty's Drama Club.
Valerie Chang:
"... we're as strong as our weakest link."
Kerry Diamond:
I see a T-shirt.
Valerie Chang:
Yeah, you know what? Maybe this year I'll get them all. Maty's Drama Club.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you've teed up the next question nicely because I know mental health is a priority for you, and you mentioned already once that you've been doing therapy now for four years.
Valerie Chang:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
It's a much bigger conversation in the industry, which is great. What got you there?
Valerie Chang:
I was always very feisty, always very confrontational. I grew up this way. That's my mother's character. She's in your phase. Nothing escapes her. And I was struggling, and I went through a very big breakup. What felt then a very big breakup. Now I'm like, "Oh, it was just little. It's fine. It really wasn't that serious." But at that moment it felt like I am sinking, and my friend Carla said, "Hey, you need to go to therapy." I was like, "I know I do. I know I do, but I just have a hard time." She goes, "Call this person." Her sister was like, "Call this person. See how it goes." I called her. We start it with five days a week just to unpack, unpack, unpack.
Kerry Diamond:
Five days a week?
Valerie Chang:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Five days a week. That's a lot.
Valerie Chang:
But this is an investment that it's worth 10 times more than anything I've ever spent money on. I've had to put the shoes on the back for now, but the therapy in the front, right? But we started five days because I was struggling so hard with this breakup. I was like, "Oh my God, who am I?" I was 29. It had that very Latin pressure of being like, "I'm 29. I'm not married. Oh, oh my God." What I realized was that I was not even in therapy for that breakup. I was in therapy because I had other things to unpack. So we started doing the unpacking, unpacking, unpacking. Now I go to therapy to make sure I'm able to show up for my team very clear-headed. Very clear-headed. Since I think right before the year ended, I started to work out with a very close friend of mine, Matt.
First I did it because my back started to hurt and my mother has had back surgery, my brother has had back surgery. I was afraid. I'm like, "Oh God, I really don't want to go through that." So I said, "Hey, listen Matt," and he is so talented at this, and I said, "I don't want to get surgery, but I think I need to strengthen my back." We went to the gym. We started lifting some weights, and what came of that was understanding that I felt even more clear-headed when I would go and be able to release energy somewhere else too. So then it hit me with the perfect combo for me to show up the best version of myself is to go through my therapy, to go through all my thoughts, and to go to the gym and discipline myself in this one thing of releasing energy. And the combo of that has allowed me to really think a lot more clear.
I tell my staff all the time, I'm like, "I go to the gym and I go to therapy more for you guys than I go for myself at this point." Forget that stuff. I've unpacked a lot of stuff, but I go because I want to be sure that whenever anything that they're throwing at me, which is they're throwing at me their personal life, their work life, their financial life, everything, as they should, because I chose to be a boss, I could have just been a worker, I chose this life, I'm able to receive it. And I'm like, "Okay, we're going to handle this."
Kerry Diamond:
You really represent a new generation of chef, because that's not how chefs would handle it in the past.
Valerie Chang:
I had an interview with, she's a woman now, but when I didn't know I wanted ... I was too afraid to go in the kitchen. I was so young. I was working the floor. We would meet in the hallway and smoke, because it was cool smoking back then, in that chef's culture and all the chefs would come out and all of us would be like, "It's so charming. He's smoking, he's European."
Kerry Diamond:
Smoking is bad kids.
Valerie Chang:
Yeah, it's really. She would tell me, "Hey, just get in there and work." And years have passed, and she came the other day and she said, "Hey, I want to work here." I couldn't believe it because she's just so knowledgeable. She's been doing this for years, but she's that incredible. She was that girl then, I can imagine who she is now. But I did tell her, I said, "Listen, I love you. I'm having a whoa moment, the fact that you want to work here. But I want to clarify that we are not interested in being old-school kitchens. Not at all." I work really hard to not yell at anybody. Sometimes I do. We work really hard in changing that. There is no drinking on the job, there is no screaming at each other, and we talk about feelings and we talk about how we're doing and we process things and we go buy shoes together so we can all be matching.
We hold each other accountable. We also hold each other up. I think that's the only way to do it. Nobody wants to get yelled at every day and nobody wants to work in fear. But that's also my character. I'm serious, but I'm not that serious. That's why I like my food to still be a little bit more casual. I like that because when you want perfection, when you're seeking perfection, of course the stakes are a little higher. Room for mistakes are a little bit higher. The mistakes cost you more. Therefore it just naturally becomes a little bit of more exigente, because when the stakes are so high, you need it to be that perfect.
So when you're trying to figure out your way and your path, you realize like, "Hey, as a chef, this is the middle ground for me. I want things to be as perfect as they can be, but I'm not looking for perfection because that's not my character." You have to have a lot of discipline to get that. You have to have a lot of super discipline, and the stakes are still high, but I like them to be not so high. If one little grape maybe didn't cover the whole scallop, I don't love that. I'm still like, "What the hell is this?" But it's not going to break that dish where some chefs are really creating work of art and that one grape not being in the exact perfect location, will destroy that dish.
Kerry Diamond:
And destroy them?
Valerie Chang:
And destroy them.
Kerry Diamond:
But that's not you. I'm happy to hear that.
Valerie Chang:
No, I'm like, "Don't do that, but we're going to figure this out." So I lead with that. I've taken responsibility for the choice I made to become a restaurant owner, to become an executive chef, and I take that responsibility not lightly. I take it with the understanding that I have to show up and I have to get myself in the right place because when I'm not in the right place, then all the crazies are running loose. And it's happened, when I've gone through any big emotional change in my life, as Maty's was very tough when we opened it, and I thought we weren't going to make it a couple of times because it's a tough space, and I was in a hole just pushing through because I had to until I had to shift the energy, shift the focus, and then I was like, "Okay, this is turning around."
Kerry Diamond:
It's tough when you get in those holes and no one can help you.
Valerie Chang:
Yeah, it's very tough when you choose a career where people are just telling you it's gratifying when everything's well, but it's really damaging when it's not that great. When someone looks at you, and it's happens, and they're like, "Yeah, you're really just not that great. I'm glad you're in all these accolades. I think you were just very lucky." And I'm like, "I think I was very lucky too." I'm like, "I'm with you." But then I'm like, "No, we are that great. We're just having a bad day, or we had a bad moment. Or maybe you were in a bad mood from the moment you got here."
And I have that thing where I talk to the team, it's like, "We're here to serve you, but I'm not your servant." And that line has to be very clear for us. Anytime that line gets crossed, and my brother and I are very protective of our team, and because we're there, we see it all. So whenever we see a table get out of line, we go head first. We're like, "What's going on here? We want to tone it down and speak to each other respectfully? I'm not your servant." I am here to provide a service for you, but that line has to be clear.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's do the speed round. What beverage do you start the morning with?
Valerie Chang:
Water.
Kerry Diamond:
Just plain water?
Valerie Chang:
I consume no coffee.
Kerry Diamond:
What is one of your much-loved cookbooks or books on food?
Valerie Chang:
Right now I'm loving “Listen To Your Vegetables” from Sarah Grueneberg.
Kerry Diamond:
What's always in your fridge?
Valerie Chang:
Hot sauces. Mine and my brother's fridge. We're hot sauces freaks.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your favorite childhood food?
Valerie Chang:
Ceviche.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen implement?
Valerie Chang:
A mandoline.
Kerry Diamond:
Mandoline. Okay.
Valerie Chang:
It's a wonderful thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you need to put little protective gloves?
Valerie Chang:
I have learned the tough lessons in life, so at this point I don't.
Kerry Diamond:
That's not how they shave the grapes.
Valerie Chang:
Sometimes.
Kerry Diamond:
Grape's too tiny on a mandoline, no?
Valerie Chang:
If my brother has been the best brother he is and has taken mercy on us and decides to sharpen our mandoline blades, we go hard at the mandoline with the grapes. When he hasn't it's like, "Okay, with the knives."
Kerry Diamond:
What is your footwear of choice in the kitchen? You mentioned you all have matching shoes.
Valerie Chang:
I am a full-on Berkies girl. I try to have a couple different colors of Berkies.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite food film.
Valerie Chang:
“Chef's Table,” all of them. When I'm not inspired, I watch Mashama Bailey's a lot. A lot.
Kerry Diamond:
Very cool.
Valerie Chang:
A lot.
Kerry Diamond:
Is there a motto or a mantra that you live by?
Valerie Chang:
Big picture, focus on the big picture.
Kerry Diamond:
If you had to be stuck on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Valerie Chang:
I'm not going to pick my dad or my brother, because that would be too obvious. If it wasn't them, I would do with Sarah Grueneberg from Monteverde. She is an incredible chef, but just an extraordinary human, and I know she would cook really good food. So yeah, that would be my choice.
Kerry Diamond:
Valerie, so good to catch up with you, and thank you for sharing and being so honest about therapy and how you've been taking care of yourself.
Valerie Chang:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. I would love for you to subscribe to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a rating and a review. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Elizabeth Vogt. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our content operations manager is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.