Renee Erickson & Francesca Nonino Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bombe Magazine, and each week I talk to the most interesting women and culinary creatives in and around the world of food.
Today we have a special double feature episode. Our first guest is Renee Erickson. Renee is a chef, restaurateur, cookbook author, and co-founder of Sea Creatures, the Seattle Hospitality Group. I haven't talked to Renee since before the pandemic, so it was fun hearing what she's up to. I love Renee's restaurants and was thrilled to visit the Whale Wins one of Renee's restaurants when I was in Seattle a few months ago for our Sit With Us Dinner.
Then, I'll be chatting with Francesca Nonino who joins me on Zoom all the way from Italy. Francesca is the sixth generation of the Noninos to be involved in their family grappa business. She's the head of digital and travels extensively in her role as global brand ambassador. The history of the Nonino family is filled with trailblazing women, so you'll enjoy hearing their story. Also, I knew nothing about grappa, I have to admit, so I'm glad to have a better understanding of this fascinating beverage. Stay tuned for my chat with Francesca.
This episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is supported by our friends at OpenTable. The holiday season is here and lots of us are looking for places to gather so we can celebrate with friends, family, and colleagues over a beautiful meal. That is where OpenTable comes in. OpenTable has curated guides to the best special occasion spots plus filters that allow you to easily discover nearby restaurants that are great for groups. Oh my gosh, I'm guessing a lot of the drama of trying to find a restaurant to accommodate your group. I have lots of siblings and nieces and nephews, so I need all the help I can get with restaurant reservations during the holidays, and then when there are birthdays and other special occasions throughout the year, OpenTable is here to help you and me plan celebratory meals with ease. To book your next reservation, go to opentable.com or the OpenTable app on your phone. It's that easy.
A little housekeeping. Early bird tickets are on sale right now for our 2024 Jubilee conference. Jubilee is the largest gathering of women and culinary creatives in the entire U.S. It's a great day of connection, community networking, and food and drink. Visit cherrybombe.com to learn more and to snag your ticket. Prices go up January 1st, so don't delay. Also, if you are an official Bombesquad member, there is a special member price, so take advantage of that. Visit cherrybombe.com for more.
Now let's check in with Chef Renee Erickson. Renee Erickson, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Renee Erickson:
Thank you. So happy to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us what Sea Creatures is.
Renee Erickson:
Sea Creatures is the parent company to all of our restaurants. We have eight currently. And let's see, next year will be Walrus’ 14th birthday, which is unbelievable. And yeah, we're trucking along. We're feeling, I think kind of dare I say, in a good spot with staffing and all this stuff that we've been struggling with for a while, and we had a really great summer and it's been all right.
Kerry Diamond:
You haven't opened a new place in a little while, but you have a... Is it a wine bar, Lioness?
Renee Erickson:
Yeah, it's a little wine bar restaurant. It's called Lioness. Yeah, it's actually really close to my house, which is awesome, in a neighborhood called Finney Ridge, and it's in this really cool building with other businesses. There's a brewery, Ben's Bakery is there. Yeah, Holy Mountain is the brewery. So it's a really fun collection of folks. There's a wine shop as well. Then we're opening up a small Italian spot. So we'll have cocktails and a good but concise menu featuring food from all over Italy and predominantly, Jen, our wine director, I think it's like a 90 bottle list, so it's a big wine list of all Italian or Washington. That's Italian varietals. So yeah, it'll probably open in mid-January if we're lucky.
Yeah, the tile's in tile's, like they're waiting on a few more pieces, and I'm actually going to take some paintings that I did to the Freeware today, and we have artists. Actually our favorite artist, Jeffrey Mitchell, who has done the cover of my cookbook and art throughout the company, we commissioned him to do a big print there, and then one of my professors who sadly is no longer with us, we bought a print of his. That's a really cool graphic of Romulus and Remus, the Wolf and the Sons of Rome, so it'll be small and very sweet in there with the art people. All the beautiful art.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you intend to be an artist, originally?
Renee Erickson:
I thought I would be an art teacher. So I went to school at University of Washington and have a painting degree, and then the story is basically I went to Rome and fell in love with Rome and wanted to go back to Rome. And by doing that, going through a graduate program at Temple University in Philadelphia, but I didn't get in, sadly. And at the same time was running Boat Street, so I ended up just kind of buying it, which is where I just say as a 25-year-old, and then now it's 26 years later. So yeah, a little nuts, but ...
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you're a different kind of artist for those of us who've been lucky enough to the food-
Renee Erickson:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm working on a cookbook that kind of talks about ... It's making that connection. So it basically telling the story of my background in art and how that's influenced my food career. And I did all the photos and I'm doing some paintings for it, so it'll be really fun. It's incredibly stressful. This one, like I'm close to the end and it's that kind of time where you're getting ready to send it off into the world and it starts to feel really like, oh God, I'm going to share too much.
Kerry Diamond:
It's your third cookbook. It hasn't gotten any easier.
Renee Erickson:
I mean, no, the process is easier because I'm more familiar with it, but this one I took on so much more of the creativity aspect of it, so it's just been a big job.
Kerry Diamond:
So Renee's book will be out fall '24. We're very much looking forward to that. Like I said, this is your third cookbook. They've all been so personal to the design, the recipes, everything.
Renee Erickson:
I mean it's no different than our restaurants really. They all have some connection to me, obviously, but places I've fallen in love with. And then both myself and Jeremy, we do all the interiors and do the creative aspect of that, which is a really important and unique part of what we do. So yeah, it's the fun part.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us who Jeremy is.
Renee Erickson:
Jeremy is my business partner. We've run Walrus together now for 14 years, and he worked with me at Boat Street. He calls himself the Boat Street's best busboy in history. He was married to a friend of ours who also works there, and his father was a really talented woodworker. At one point I needed a banquette and a bar built for Boat Street 2.0 and they were like, "We'll do it." So we kind of really became friends during that process and also kind of understood each other as far as what we like to do creatively. So yeah, it's been a fun, it's a really great part of our team is that collaboration we get to do around the spaces.
Kerry Diamond:
You mentioned that you bought Boat at age 25. How and why does someone buy a restaurant at that age?
Renee Erickson:
Stupid enough to do so at that age, obviously. I had been working there off and on for about five years, and Susan, who was the creator of Boat Street, she was going through some stuff in life and wanted to make some changes. And she had been bugging me for a while, and then I left, like I said, I was wanting to be a teacher, so I had gone back to Europe and figuring things out and then came back. And she still was very much interested in no longer having the restaurant. And I over time just really kind of fell in love with restaurants, being in them and just that aspect of it. I wasn't obviously a great cook at the time, but I loved it and it was simple enough. And 26 years ago, it was a very different scene, and so you could get away with not being great at things as much as you can now.
There was no one slamming you on Instagram immediately. So yeah, I had time to kind of grow and learn. And I think it was a matter of great support from my family and it wasn't expensive, which is obviously something that has to happen if you're 25 and trying to do something. And I loved it. I was really lucky. It was this really sweet falling down boat shed kind of space over by the University of Washington. And if I could have it back, I would. It was perfect. Sadly, they knocked it down, but it was terrible too. It had a stove that was crap and no dishwasher and a leaky roof and all the things one would not assume to be charming and fabulous, but it really was.
Kerry Diamond:
It was the start of Sea Creatures, right?
Renee Erickson:
Yeah. So 12 years later was when we opened Walrus. So it was a long time doing just the running of the one restaurant, which felt like enough really, I was very afraid to do two. I couldn't quite wrap my head around it, and that's how Jeremy ended up working with us too. He at the time was still working, I think at Boat Street a little bit and had said to me one time like, "Hey, if you ever do anything, I would love to participate." So it was like, "Hey, I'm considering this, would you do it?"
I didn't want to open a restaurant and not have somebody, an owner out there, and I knew that having two meant I was never going to be in one or the other spot. So having Jeremy as the ownership manager of it was important. So he was the general manager and co-owner for the first three or four years I would say, until we tortured him. He moved on. Then we opened Whale Inn, so I guess it was three years. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell me how you found your sea legs, pun intended as a chef.
Renee Erickson:
I mean, honestly, I've been lucky to travel a lot. I think that has helped me learn the most about food and what I like about it or what I think I'm capable of doing. I never went to culinary school, so I don't have that kind of training at all. Mine comes from reading and eating, basically. I'm pretty clear on what I thought I could do. I wasn't going to be a super fancy, high-end chef in a hotel because I had this clunky, weird little cafe.
So that drove what I was doing, I think a lot. And Susan, who started Boat Street had a real background in French food, so that taught me a lot. Of course, I've read a lot of Julia Child's books and was very much influenced by her as a kid watching, just kind of in shock that this wild woman was on television, cooking chickens and living in the Northwest. We have such great things. So it was pretty easy to find creativity that way. For a long time until I had a lot of employees that came from formal training, I didn't like being called Chef. It's still funny to me, but it's helpful when there's a room full of 40 people to have that as a way to get someone's attention.
Kerry Diamond:
So Lioness is next. Usually the names have something to do with the Sea, hence Sea Creatures. Where does Lioness fit into that?
Renee Erickson:
It is just a name that we had. We kind of have had a collection of names that we think are interesting or things that we want to use. General Purpose was one that Jeremy thought of for a general purpose space. We were going to use it for events and catering and things like that. And it was just too funny to let go. And so when we decided to do the Donaldsby, that's when we chose General Purpose. But Lioness, I like that it's feminine. I like that it's powerful and it's a fun thing to say.
Kerry Diamond:
It is a fun thing to say.
Renee Erickson:
It has nothing to do with Italy or the Sea but-
Kerry Diamond:
Or Safari.
Renee Erickson:
Or Safari. No, just Lioness.
Kerry Diamond:
So you mentioned how much travel influences you. You just took a gorgeous trip to Spain. What was that trip all about? Is that a work trip, pleasure trip, both?
Renee Erickson:
Pleasure, for sure. I went with a longtime friend of mine, Carrie Emilia, who was our ... She hated being called as our president of the company before she left. She was also our wine director for a very long time.
Kerry Diamond:
Why did she hate being called President?
Renee Erickson:
Well, we kind of forced her into it. She would say as well. She's just so good at her job and we needed someone who ... It was during the pandemic, actually. She was our wine director for, I don't know, eight years or something like that before this happened. But she's super smart and having some massive turnover in the pandemic. When we were rebuilding, we really felt like we needed somebody who people trusted and felt that they had a relationship with, and she was definitely that person.
She and I went to Spain together, which is great. I've known her for 20 years, I'd say now. She sold wine to me at the original Boat Street. So yeah, we've been friends and have been traveling together for a very long time.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us where in Spain you went.
Renee Erickson:
So we flew into Madrid. We spent one night in Amsterdam on the way in and out, which was really fun. And then we flew to Madrid and spent about a week there. We made the trip too long, unfortunately. So we were both kind of like, "Ah, we got to get out of here." It was a week in Madrid. We have a close friend who we've worked with who lives there, and so we got to see her life there, which was really fun. And then we went to the car and drove to San Sebastian and stayed there for another week, and it was super wonderful. I think the more I've traveled and the older I get, the more I'm like, I like cities, but not for 14 days. So we needed some countryside, which we drove out into the countryside, which was great, but it was a lot. We were kind of at it.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us a food and drink highlight from Madrid.
Renee Erickson:
We had a really great lunch at a place called, I think it's called Black Castella, which is a very cool ... I think it's been there for quite a long time. Tapas Bar, and we went on a Sunday because Saturday was when we arrived, and it was a holiday. So the next day it was just madness of people and their families all out having lunch. And they had made a reservation and we were sitting in this little tiny bar. And it was just so much fun watching all these people come in and out and drink wine.
And I think it's the best part about travel is just observing how other cultures get together and what their traditions are around food. And I was super surprised and charmed. And I think also it's really interesting. You find a lot of things that people in America would just be like, "What the hell are you doing?" This is not okay. For example, in Spain, they'll serve you a giant bowl of rice and mussels for everybody, and they put just forks in it. Everyone just eats out of it. And I was just like, "Oh my God." Can you imagine doing that at home? People would just be like, "What the hell are you doing?" It's a big bowl of popcorn at home kind of thing. But with forks.
Kerry Diamond:
And mussels and seafood.
Renee Erickson:
I know. It wasn't just terrible. It's just like that would never fly. But that kind of stuff I think is the best part of it. And that was really, it was just a great place. It was super fun and great energy and packed with people.
Kerry Diamond:
What was the best thing you ate?
Renee Erickson:
We did eat this very cool... I'm a huge fan of potato chips as some may know and they have the tortilla there in Spain that is with eggs obviously. And this one had super soft, barely cooked eggs with, I think this one had sausage in it or something, but it also had potato chips all over the top and then peppers, and so it was just wacko and so good.
Kerry Diamond:
And then you took a little detour to France for a day?
Renee Erickson:
We did. We drove to France. It was very fast. It was 45 minutes, which was super fun. We went to Saint-Jean-de-Luz, and it was on the beach and we were lucky. We went on the market days. We showed up without really any plan and it was magic. We just walked in and there was just a whole ... You're in France all of a sudden, which I mean, I should expect that, but I mean it's the coolest thing about Europe is you can drive 45 minutes and it is so different. And it was exactly that. So we had Rosé, which was fantastic, and we had no Rosé up until that point. Really it was because it's ubiquitous in France and then to have to struggle to find it in Spain was really interesting.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell me about Market Day. I'm just like, ugh, I can't even...
Renee Erickson:
It was so good.
Kerry Diamond:
I love a farmer's market.
Renee Erickson:
I mean, it was packed. I think we got there at 11. We did not get up early on this trip. We were like, "Nope, we're taking it easy." It was just as it is where it is just like you're walking through and I mean, it's one of those things I think they do it so well and we still sort of suck so bad at markets where at least in Seattle, there's almost no fresh fish. We have all these rules about what you can and can't sell, and there it's just go for it. It was just tons of seafood everywhere. That was beautiful.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't think I've ever been to a Seattle farmer's market now that I think about it.
Renee Erickson:
We have really, really great farmer's markets. You can get lots of things, lots of meat and cheese and all the things, but every once in a while I feel like you can get raw fish, but mostly it's all frozen or smoked. And same with meat. And not that that's bad, I buy tons of it and I'm thrilled to have it, but there's something kind of so thrilling to walk through the fish market and see it all just sparkly and perfect. And I wish we were better on it, but we don't have the same food culture. People aren't ravenous about food, I don't think the same way they're in brands, so.
Kerry Diamond:
You are.
Renee Erickson:
Well, yeah. I mean we're trying, right? We're getting there a little bit but that was really great. There was this one person selling because we're really close to Esplanade. We were going to go to Esplanade, but it was too far to drive for a day trip. It was two little over two hours and I was like, I don't want to spend four hours in the car. So it's perfect. Markets are, it's the best thing. The best thing is just going to the grocery store. I'm looking at what's different-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I'm such a nerd for a foreign grocery store.
Renee Erickson:
Buy things that I don't need.
Kerry Diamond:
My poor mother, I was dragging her. We went to Paris in June for her birthday. It was me, my brother, sister-in-law, nieces, and my mother. And she's like, "Why do we keep walking through Monoprix? Aren't there museums and monuments that we can go look at?" And I'm like, "Look at all the yogurt, mom. This is unbelievable."
Renee Erickson:
I know, right? It's so true. Yeah. Went to a market in Spain in Tolosa, which was I think the other best thing we did, which was a Saturday market. And it was also the big mushroom festival. We saw the biggest, I kid you not, hat. It was probably like 20 feet wide. It was like a 3 feet tall. It was huge. It was hysterically huge. We walked around the corner and we could smell this woodsy smell and sherry, I was like, "What in the hell is this?" And we come around the corner and we were like, "Are you kidding me?" And there was these two men with these big paddles that were stirring these mushrooms. I was like ... Just nuts. It was so perfect.
Kerry Diamond:
You stumbled into Guinness record mushroom stew.
Renee Erickson:
Yeah, exactly. Totally. It felt like that. And I read Spanish. We were speaking to them about Basque, so even we were useless but ...
Kerry Diamond:
Did you get to eat the mushrooms?
Renee Erickson:
We did not. We weren't there long enough because we had a lunch reservation.
Kerry Diamond:
The holidays are upon us Renee. What do you celebrate in December?
Renee Erickson:
Christmas. So we always make pasta on Christmas Eve, which is really fun. We kind of all vote on what we want to do.
Kerry Diamond:
And when you say we, who's we?
Renee Erickson:
We is usually me and my husband Dan and my parents often times. Sometimes my brother and his kids, depending on if they're with their mom or not.
Kerry Diamond:
So wait, pasta, you got to tell me what kind of pasta?
Renee Erickson:
I mean, it depends. We've made ravioli. I was thinking of making tortellini this year, but we'll see. I don't know. Lasagna. I've done old-school American baked ziti. We kind of done it all. One year at the big Raviolas with the egg yolk and the whipped ricotta. That's hard to beat, so it's usually that's the effort on Christmas Eve. And then Christmas day is kind of all over the place. We have a wood oven in the backyard that we cook in. So we'll roast a leg of lamb, but we don't have an exact tradition.
My mom makes cookies usually, and I actually just got the new “River Cottage Christmas” cookbook from Laura at Book Larder. And every year I think about doing this is then, of course it's in their book where you make the bird seed ornaments to put on trees. So I might try to do that as a present for friends. I think it's either a combination or just because I'm now over 50, but I have become a bird person, which I think is hysterical. I was like, it's probably the pandemic. I was able to look at things more. So I was like, oh, I should make something for the birds. So I have this tree outside my kitchen window that right now has all the little frozen berries on it and the birds, they get a little bit tipsy on them.
And so the other day I was watching the robins eat these berries and it's a tree that I've talked about cutting down. And of course it takes that sort of thing to be like, oh, I can't cut it down. These birds will have nowhere to be. So they're very sweet. Well, yeah, I had a big hawthorn tree for a while that was really kind of an awful old tree, but the same thing would happen. The birds would come and eat the frozen berries and then they'd be like little wobbly, but it's great-
Kerry Diamond:
There's a lot of fruit trees in Seattle if I remember. I feel like I was walking everywhere to Book Larder, and there are so many, the fruit was falling off onto people's yards and it was killing me.
Renee Erickson:
Yeah, I know we do have city fruit organization that they'll come and pick your tree and distribute-
Kerry Diamond:
And donate it. Yeah, we did a great story a few years ago about organizations that do it. It's called gleaning.
Renee Erickson:
Gleaning, yeah. So cool.
Kerry Diamond:
Where they come and they pick the fruit and make sure it doesn't fall to the ground and go to waste. I think that's a great thing. How about any of the restaurants? Do any of the restaurants celebrate the holidays in a special way?
Renee Erickson:
So Whale Wins has the larder, which is we sell a lot of holiday things. Actually this year we did it right before Thanksgiving. We put up all the panettone and kind of hang them from the ceiling, and that is a total ripoff that I stole from another really amazing company in Seattle called DeLaurenti, which is in the Pike Place Market. And they did that every year, and I remember going there with my folks and just being just so charmed by it, the whole ceiling would be filled with ribbons and big panettone hanging kind of everywhere. So we stole that from them. Thank you DeLaurenti.
And so we do that and then we cook the panettone in the wood oven as well for people to order and we just try to bring in things that seem kind of fun and festive. So more champagne by the glass and obviously oysters and oysters in the wood oven, and we do big holiday decorations and trees and we've made ornaments in the past. Actually, Westward made a bunch of oyster ornaments this year, which is really charming. So yeah, we get into it a little bit without going too crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you ever do the Feast of Seven Fishes?
Renee Erickson:
I have not, which it is kind of ironic. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure it's an Italian tradition, and so up until Willmott's, we didn't have any Italian influenced spots. And so it wasn't something that I thought of doing. I'm going to one this year, which is really fun at Delancey here in Seattle. And I can't wait. I don't actually love big meals like this anymore, but I'm hopeful this one's a little lighter. Well, it seems like it will be, so it'll be really exciting. I'm excited.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, Delancey. I haven't been there in years.
Renee Erickson:
I know, it's the best.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm happy to hear they're still up and running.
Renee Erickson:
Yeah, it's walking distance from our house, which is fantastic. And it's kind of our neighborhood spot. Brandon worked with me at Boat Street forever, so I feel like he's my kid brother in the way. He's been around forever. Yeah, exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's great.
Renee Erickson:
Yeah. So no, I haven't done it, but I should. It'd be fun to do.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, we are going to do a little speed round. Coffee or tea? How do you start your day?
Renee Erickson:
Coffee.
Kerry Diamond:
It's Seattle. How do you take it?
Renee Erickson:
We make an AeroPress. So we have a little Burr Grinder and we get coffee from our local guy named Andy who has Stamp Act Coffee, which is fabulous coffee. And I just make that and a little bit of cream.
Kerry Diamond:
What is a favorite cookbook? What's a book you reach for often?
Renee Erickson:
I'm a big fan of…Well, I love all of Diana Henry's cookbooks. I'm a big English cookbook person, so I would say her books, Nigel Slater's books, “Spring,” which is a really a beautiful restaurant in London that I love. Her cookbook is super great.
Kerry Diamond:
Skye's book.
Renee Erickson:
Yeah, lots of English or as they sometimes refer to it as Britalian as well, like the “River Cafe” book.
Kerry Diamond:
What's your favorite food film?
Renee Erickson:
“Big Night.”
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen implement.
Renee Erickson:
Knife.
Kerry Diamond:
What kind of shoes do you wear in the kitchen?
Renee Erickson:
Sneakers. It used to be clogs but no longer clogs.
Kerry Diamond:
No longer. Are you a music in the kitchen person or no music?
Renee Erickson:
Yeah, I play a lot of classical music lately, which is nice.
Kerry Diamond:
At the work kitchen or your home kitchen?
Renee Erickson:
Home kitchen. Work kitchen is whatever's in the restaurant, so we have playlists that people get to kind of participate with. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not.
Kerry Diamond:
Case by case. What's your favorite snack food?
Renee Erickson:
Probably potato chips.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your favorite childhood food?
Renee Erickson:
Favorite? Oh, probably chocolate chip cookies.
Kerry Diamond:
What's something that's always in your fridge?
Renee Erickson:
Anchovies.
Kerry Diamond:
Last question question, and I have no idea who you're going to say, but if you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Renee Erickson:
Probably Diana Henry just because she's a hoot and she makes fabulous food, so yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
All right. Diana Henry. Renee, it's good to see you, even if it's just over a Zoom.
Renee Erickson:
Yeah. Absolutely. Great to see you too.
Kerry Diamond:
Thank you so much to Chef Renee. We'll be right back with our next guest. Today's show is presented by Reform, the design-led Scandinavian Kitchen brand reimagining what kitchens can be. Reform works with leading designers and architects from around the world to create kitchens that elevate your everyday life. Their modular kitchen collections come in bold color and material combinations to suit a variety of lifestyles. And you will love and appreciate Reform's quality craftsmanship, and attention to detail. Reform has seven showrooms in the U.S. You can find them in DUMBO, Philadelphia, Paramus, Santa Monica, DTLA, Costa Mesa, and Chicago. And they'll be opening in San Francisco very soon. All of their showrooms are open for walk-ins, or you can book a meeting with one of Reform's experienced kitchen planners who can help bring ideas and drawings to life. You can also visit the Reform website at reformcph.com for design inspiration. Browse the Reform Kitchen collection or head to the Discover section, my favorite, and see what the Reform kitchens look like in different homes and apartments. If a new kitchen is on your 2024 wish list, consider Reform. Speaking of Reform, we hosted our Molly Baz issue launch party at the Reform showroom in DUMBO. Thank you so much to the team at Reform and to everyone who joined us for the holiday party. Needless to say, being surrounded by all that modern cabinetry and countertops and great organization systems has me rethinking my kitchen. Pay Reform a visit in person or virtually, and you will no doubt be similarly inspired.
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Now let's hear from Francesca Nonino. Francesca, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Francesca Nonino:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited.
Kerry Diamond:
Francesca, my first question, tell us how and when your family's company came to be.
Francesca Nonino:
So we are a family of distillers in Friuli since 1897. We turned 126th year this year. It's incredible because we started with my great-great-great-great-grandfather Orazio, we can say a mix between a farmer and a distiller. He used to go with this parcel on wheel to go by vineyard to vineyard to collect the pomace, the leftover wine making. And in exchange of those pomace, when he distilled them, he gave a couple of grappa bottles and from that single parcel on wheel, today we are the biggest artisanal distillery in Italy.
It's incredible because all the structure of our distillery, it's just the main purpose of being able to distill super fresh pomace. Our distillery is a love declaration to pomace and to grappa because instead of stocking the pomace up to eight month, we only distill the precious most delicious pomace maximum one hour and a half of transportation time. And we do not stock any. During the distillation period, instead of distilling for eight months, we distill for eight weeks. But during those eight weeks that happen exactly during the harvest, we distill even at night. And I have to say, the night distillation is one of the most magical, intimate thing you can witness. It's amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
What is pomace?
Francesca Nonino:
Pomace is, oh my God, just like imagine to have a grape in your hand. You squeeze the grape, the juice come out. When you open your hand, the skin, the residual pulp, the seed that is pomace and grappa is made distilling Italian pomace in Italy because otherwise it's not grappa, but it's pomace of the vin. It's similar to champagne. Grappa can only be made in Italy. This is the reason why it's the most Italian spirit of all. In the past, because pomace was seen only as wine leftover, grappa was considered a poor product. In the past, considered that the farmer used to make grappa using direct fire, stocking the pomace for man. So they made this spirit that was not only called grappa, but also the fire water that is able to burn away even hunger.
But grappa at the time was used almost as an everyday remedy. Just like your teeth ache, you massage your gum with grappa. It's crazy cold outside, you pour a little bit of grappa in your coffee. From that, thanks to what my grandmother and my grandfather did, grappa was able to transform into a product that today represent Italian excellence over the world.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you tell us who Silvia Nonino is? I read she was the first woman in Italy to manage a distillery.
Francesca Nonino:
Yes. Silvia Nonino is my great-grandmother, the man of our master distiller, my grandfather Benito, and she was the wife of the first generation of Nonino family, Antonio Nonino. That is the one that created the original recipe of Amaro Nonino. The thing was that during Second World War, my great-grandfather Antonio got killed. And for this reason, my great-grandmother found herself a widow and in the need to find a way to support her family. So she had to learn how to distill and how to make liqueur to be able to survive, to support a family. And to be able to create her first signature recipe, she decided to try to use her own knowledge. And that meant using her skill and knowledge in the kitchen because she was a great, great, great cook. She also used to own a tiny rustic restaurant in her own house. And using this knowledge she created at the time what was called aperitivo bianco, that means white apéritif, that today is also our Aperitivo Nonino Botanical drink.
That is this amazing product made using 18 botanicals, completely natural and vegan-friendly. And I honestly think that having my great-grandmother being the first female master distiller, the reason beyond that, it's really sad. But that completely changed our history because my grandfather our master distiller as being raised by a strong independent woman. He was used to see women working, women put their face on job. And so for this reason, in a period where in our country, men used to say that a woman, we were talking about the early 1960, 1940, 1960. And in our country, the people used to say that a woman just needed to be pretty, be silent and be in the kitchen.
So imagine the situation in a period like that. My grandfather was able to fell in love with my grandmother that is such a strong energetic woman. And I think that if my grandfather wasn't raised by Silvia, he would never be able to do that. And my grandmother and my grandfather together, they completely revolutionized the way of making grappa because of the skill as a master distiller of my grandfather, but also because of the communication skill of my grandmother. And it was my grandmother that still today is the face of the company. And I think, I don't know, they're not getting younger, but every time I start thinking about their love story and how much my grandfather believe in my grandmother, I am always amazed.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Francesca, tell us a little bit about your grandmother Giannola. She's a legend.
Francesca Nonino:
Thank you so much. Yes, my grandmother, Giannola, she really is a legend. And in 1960, she fell in love with my grandfather. And I think even this is amazing because it was my grandmother to asked my grandfather to marry her, imagine in 1962. And when my grandmother fell in love with my grandfather, she also realized that the grappa my grandfather was making was completely different from any other grappa because the grappa my grandfather was making was made using super fresh pomace. Already at the time setting of stocking the pomace, my grandfather was distilling only super fresh pomace and also selecting pomace by the best winemakers in our region.
That was something really important because my grandfather did not accept to take pomace that was too dry, from grapes that were too much pressed because he realized that the first rule of distillation, that is to obtain the best spirit you can. You need to distill the best raw material you can because the quality of the spirit you will obtain is directly connected with the quality of the raw material you distill.
And so he was willing to pay much more for the pomace, but get only the super fresh, super soft juice pomace from the winemakers. And the problem was that even if my grandfather was already making a grappa that was unbelievably good, the prejudice among grappa between Italian because people thought that grappa was this product made by poor people was too strong. And when my grandmother used to be invited in friend's houses, her friends' party, she brought the grappa or her husband did, but that grappa was never offered to their guests because they thought it was almost disrespectful to offer grappa at the fancy dinner.
And so my grandmother went to my grandfather and she said to him, Benito, we need to make a revolution. We need to change this because your grappa is much better than this. And so for 10 years they studied grappa. They studied distillation to be able to find a way to prove to the final consumer that grappa was not only this fire water to fight cold, hunger but could be the soul, the essence of the grape put in the final glass.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk more about grappa. How does one drink grappa?
Francesca Nonino:
So grappa traditionally was seen as a digestive as something you use to drink to set your stomach after a meal. But I have just say that normally, oh, please, this is real important. Grappa is not a shot though. It's not the type of thing that you take and you smash like that. No, please. Grappa is a medication type of drink. Overall, if you put all the type of work we put into making grappa, please try to enjoy to appreciate first with your nose, then with your palate to taste how the nose and the palate completely chatter in this harmonious way.
Kerry Diamond:
Francesca, how about in cocktails? I know grappa is a popular ingredient in cocktails these days.
Francesca Nonino:
Yes, thank God. We're so happy. We're all about, I have to say that my Aunt Antonella, in 2007, she started this movement that is #BEBRAVEMIXGRAPPA movement that touches bartenders from all over the world, making them first appreciating grappa as a product because it's important to able to, how can we say that, to be able to summarize the type of perfume and taste you're able to appreciating the grappa and then play with them to make unbelievable cocktail.
The amazing thing with grappa is that it can bring so much to the cocktail and you can play by harmony or by contrast. One of the most talented bartenders I met, Monica Berg, she has a cocktail bar in London. She created the three different cocktails all the time using our Moscato Grappa because she decided to give a three different type to express three different type of personality of our grappa.
For example, she created Italiano, that is a twist of a cocktail that is really typical and popular in Peru, that mix our Moscato Grappa with a Neroli Cordial that is a cordial made with bitter orange blossom and ginger ale. And she decided to pair our moscato with bitter orange blossom cordial because she said that she was able to appreciate orange blossom on our grappa. She created another amazing cocktail called Chinotto Negroni because she said that in our grappa she was able to taste the patchouli, the really and beautiful super perfume wood. Or for example, another cocktail, she created Jasmine Gimlet because she said that in our grappa she was able to taste vanilla. And so she was able to represent our grappa in an amazing way because what I think is the best way of making a grappa cocktail is when you can taste grappa in.
Otherwise, if you cannot taste the grappa, I think that you can use any other neutral spirit that is less expensive. But she was able to express different type of perfume and notes of our grappa, but you were able to taste that it was Moscato Grappa. And for me it was like every time I try one of her cocktails, it was like rediscovering my own product because when you give your product to a talented bartender, it's just like that bartender is able to continue the history of that product, mixing it with their own history, and I think it's unbelievable.
Kerry Diamond:
Last question, because the holidays are here, does your family have any fun holiday traditions that include grappa?
Francesca Nonino:
Yes, of course. First thing, we have a lot of different type of tradition for Christmas, but the first thing is that how do you say, we break the ice because we are a family with lot of people and we are Italians, so we're really loud. But to break the ice, we always started with spritzer made with a lot of L'Aperitivo nonino and some Prosecco, and it's delicious when we feel fancy with champagne as well. And that is just a mood.
And then when it's time for adding panettone, we pair panettone with our Grappa Chardonnay in barrique because it's unbelievable. In Italy, we always offer Panettone with mascarpone cream and we pour a little bit of Chardonnay Grappa both in the mascarpone cream where we take a little piece of panettone and then we dip it in the Mascarpone cream with a little bit of chardonnay in barrique, and then we take a sip of the Chardonnay Grappa, and then after all of that, to set your stomach because you need a little extra help during the Christmas season, we have our Amaro Nonino as my grandfather, our master distiller wants it. That's on the rock with a slice of orange and it's unbelievable.
Kerry Diamond:
It's so nice to talk to you. I mean, what an incredible family, like you said, so much girl power.
Francesca Nonino:
Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. This is our last show of the year. What an incredible year it's been. The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network team has produced more than 150 podcasts this year. If you haven't listened to our other shows, we have a baking podcast. She's my Cherry Pie hosted by Jessie Sheehan. It's the number one baking podcast in America, so definitely check that out. New episodes drop on Saturdays, and there is a great back catalog that will inspire you to get baking. There's The Future Of Food Is You hosted by James Beard award winner and rising star, Abena Anim-Somuah. Then there's Dishing on Julia, the official companion podcast for “Julia,” which is streaming on Maxs. I host that and talk to crew and cast members and special guests and have a great time doing so.
Thank you to all of our listeners and sponsors for making these shows possible. Radio Cherry Bombe's theme song is by the band Tralala. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios. Our producer is Catherine Baker. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu, and our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Big thanks to our amazing team and lots of love, and thanks to you for listening. Happy New Year everybody. You're the Bombe.