Grace Young Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe. And I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Each week, we talk to the coolest culinary personalities around. The folks shaping and shaking up the food scene. Joining me in the studio today is the force of nature known as Grace Young. Some of you might know her as the Stir-Fry Guru or the Wok Therapist, or maybe you know Grace because of her work to save Chinatown in New York City. In recognition of that work, Grace has been named the recipient of the eighth annual Julia Child Award by the Julia Child Foundation for Gastronomy and the Culinary Arts. The amazing Grace will join us in just a minute to tell us more about her career, her cookbooks and her beloved Chinatown. So, stay tuned. Today's episode is presented by Brightland, a modern pantry essentials company.
We have a serious crush on Brightland here at Cherry Bombe. Brightland was founded by Aishwarya Iyer who, believe it or not, was my intern when I worked at Lancome back in my beauty industry days. Aishwarya and her small, but mighty team have built a beautiful company with consciously crafted products I love and use regularly from the extra virgin olive oil that started it all to Brightland's fruit forward vinegars and floral honey. Everything is sourced from family run US farms, it's super fresh and is truly delicious. A great introduction to the brand is the mini essential set, which features four of their best sellers. Two extra virgin olive oils, plus a raw double fermented berry balsamic vinegar, and a raw double fermented citrus champagne vinegar, all made in California in small batches. There are so many things you can do with these four outstanding products from drizzling over salad greens or tartines, to mixing into mocktails.
You can order the mini essential set direct from their website, brightland.co. There's a lot to discover and love on their site, including recipes. So, be sure to visit. You also can find Brightland at your favorite specialty food shop.
I want to take a minute to ask you to subscribe to our show, whether you're new to the pod or a repeat listener, we love when you subscribe via your favorite podcast platform. You can also leave a rating or review. Let me know what you thought about this episode or past episodes and tell me what future guests you would like to hear from. Now let's check in with today's guest.
Grace Young, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Grace Young:
Thank you for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations on being this year's Julia Child Award recipient.
Grace Young:
It's a huge honor.
Kerry Diamond:
Every year I'm so excited to see who they're going to pick. And I was thrilled that you are this year's recipient and they know a lot of people were excited as well, you are so immensely deserving for lots of reasons that we'll talk about. You actually met Julia. Tell us about the first time you met.
Grace Young:
I met Julia when I was 14 or 15 years old, and I was completely fixated on Julia as a child because her French Chef Cooking show was my favorite show on TV. And every week I would watch the show. And in those days you had to send a self-addressed envelope to WGBH, and they would mail you the recipe. So, the show started in ‘63. I have no idea when I started watching, but I figured out how to buy her French Chef cookbook, the paperback. I had the Bantam paperback. And when I was about 14 or 15 years old, I loved reading the newspaper. And in the San Francisco Chronicle, I read that she was coming to the White House department store for book signing. I had no idea what that meant actually, but I convinced my father to take off from work and drive me to the White House department store.
And I brought my copy of the French Chef cookbook. When we arrived, I was the only child. I believe we were the only Asians in attendance. It looked like mainly the ladies who lunch, really beautifully elegant women dressed in little like Dior suits. And everyone had a hard back of Mastering The Art of French Cooking part two. And I waited in line, my father waited with me. And Julia was there with Paul. And so by the time we got to the line, they both signed my book. My father took a photograph of Julia and me and I mailed the photograph to Julia at WGBH. She autographed the photograph, sent it back to me. And this is the painful part of the story. Over the years that picture got lost. But I can still see her. So, that's what counts. And after my first cookbook, The Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen came out, I got to meet Julia again.
Kerry Diamond:
Why were you a Julia fan? What was it about her that captivated you?
Grace Young:
I was mesmerized. I was fascinated by her, by her personality. I was fascinated by the food that she was cooking. I had grown up in a very traditional Cantonese family where we ate basically 95% of our meals were classic Cantonese dishes and everything that she was cooking was completely foreign to me. I had no idea what a souffle was. What crème pâtissière was. Everything that she made, looked so interesting to me. So, she really inspired me to cook. And my mother allowed me to cook her recipes from the French chef Cookbook.
Kerry Diamond:
And about how old were you at this time?
Grace Young:
I think I must have been 10 or 11. And the first thing that I made was her brioche. And I didn't know what brioche was supposed to taste like. I had never worked with yeast. My mother was very sophisticated because my mother was raised in Shanghai. So, she'd been exposed to European cooking and baked goods. And so I remember the aroma filling the kitchen and the two of us sort of looking at each other, our oven didn't have a glass door. So, we had to just wait patiently. And then when the buzzer went off, when I opened the oven door, the brioche were just perfect. They were golden, perfect little ball on top. And I remember that look of amazement on my mother's face that I had made this. And when we tasted it, it was thrilling. It was so delicious. And I couldn't wait to make the next Julia dish.
Kerry Diamond:
So, who did the cooking at home? Was it your mom or did the parents split the chores?
Grace Young:
My parents basically split the chores. They were incredible home cooks. They shopped for their ingredients daily. They never shopped once a week and then cooked from everything that they got on the weekend. My father was in Chinatown every day. And so he would see the bok choy was just delivered or the fish looked really good. So, everything was pristine and fresh.
Kerry Diamond:
What are some of the dishes you still remember that they cooked?
Grace Young:
Oh, I think my favorite dish from childhood was tomato beef. My brother's also. It was just very classic Cantonese comfort food. It's just beef stir fried with ginger and fresh tomatoes with a little bit of oyster sauce. And it was the only way my parents could get us to eat lots and lots of rice, which is something that Chinese parents want to see their children do. It's a sense of like, everything's fine and right with the world.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you still make that dish today?
Grace Young:
Oh yes.
Kerry Diamond:
When I was watching some of your videos, I fully went down the Grace Young rabbit hole last week. You talked about how your parents did not cook on a wok when you were growing up in your home.
Grace Young:
Right.
Kerry Diamond:
Why was it that they didn't use a wok?
Grace Young:
So, the home that I grew up in, they had this very modern General Electric stove. The burners were coil rings. It was impossible to put a round bottom wok on an electric stove and yet adequate heat. So, I grew up seeing them stir-fry with a Farberware skillet or sometimes like a Revere Ware pot. And I remember always seeing the look of frustration on my father's face because when you stir-fry in a skillet, each time you scoop up the ingredients, you're actually just pushing them to the other side of the skillet. Whereas when you stir-fry in a wok, each time you scoop the ingredients tumble back into the well of the wok and it's much easier to stir-fry all the food uniformly.
Kerry Diamond:
Yet somehow you still manage to grow up and become the Wok Whisperer and the Stir-fry Guru and all those other nicknames that you've been given. And we'll talk about that more in a little bit. Another interesting thing I read is that you had a culinary apprenticeship of sorts at the age of 13. Tell us what that was all about.
Grace Young:
So, Julia got me so interested in French cooking. And as I said, I love to read the San Francisco Chronicle. And so I read about this woman, Josephine Araldo, who had been taught by Henri Pellaprat of the Cordon Bleu, the founder of the Cordon Bleu. And she had been Isadora Duncan's personal chef. By the time I met her, she was in her 70s and she was teaching French cooking lessons from her home, which was a five minute drive from my parents' home. So, I have no recollection of how I finesse this, but I convinced my father to drive me to Josephine's home. And I told Josephine that I could help out during the classes and wash dishes in exchange for free lessons. And Josephine agreed to this. And my father agreed to drive me to Josephine's two or three nights a week. So, on a school night, the lesson would be from about 06:30, until 08:30.
And it was this very warm, loving atmosphere. And Josephine taught out of her kitchen. And it was this cramped space with about nine to 15 students. And some of the most famous chefs from the bay area took these lessons, but they were much older than me. Patty Unterman was one of the students I remember. Yeah, that was a very, very powerful time in my life. And Josephine was in her 70s and she really took me under her wings. I had never seen herbs. So, she grew them in her garden. She had thyme, basil, oregano. She had fresh mint, dill, everything. And her food was really traditional and classic French.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm just marveling at little Grace showing up unannounced, uninvited, and just asking to work.
Grace Young:
I really wish I could remember more details of how I came up with this idea. And I would love to have a glimpse, a video to see me asking Josephine or proposing this idea. I can't believe that I was so enterprising, but I was just so fascinated with French cooking. And once I started learning, it was just a fish and water. Like I loved it and I wanted to learn more and more and more.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you cook more and more at home?
Grace Young:
I did. And then I was very lucky in high school. Our high school counselor came up with a program the year that I turned 16, that she tried to place students in whatever area they were interested in pursuing as a life career. And I was the only student who said that they were interested in food and she was so brilliant. Her name is Marty Hack. And I actually reconnected with her recently on Facebook. But she got me an internship program at kitchens. And from there she got me an internship program working for a freelance recipe developer and food stylist named Stevie Bass who became my mentor. And I'm still in touch with Stevie.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. So, few people have any idea what they want to do at that age. And your parents were completely encouraging of this?
Grace Young:
Yes. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. Okay. Remarkable. How did you make the leap from all of that to the time life test kitchen?
Grace Young:
So, by the time I graduated from UC Berkeley, I had so much work experience working in test kitchens and doing food styling that I immediately got a job at General Foods in their test kitchens. And then there was a job opening at a book packager named Tree Communications and their main client was Time Life books. And so that's how I started working at Tree running the test kitchen for all the Time Life cookbooks that we did. And we did over 40 of them.
Kerry Diamond:
What did that mean to be the test kitchen director?
Grace Young:
So, I oversaw all the testing of the recipes that went into the cookbooks. I coordinated all the food photography. In those days I wasn't hiring the prop stylist, but just coordinating the food photography that went into the cookbooks. And I just loved the work. And Stevie Bass had been really amazing because she taught me to test recipes like a lab experiment. So, I was very, very precise and I wrote down notes and observations that I saw as I was testing. And then when we had to retest a recipe, I knew what adjustments we needed to make. So, it was work that I loved from the moment I started.
Kerry Diamond:
You must have no patience for a badly written recipe today?
Grace Young:
Yeah. It's ... And most chefs cannot write a recipe.
Kerry Diamond:
That's true. I learned that the hard way when we did the Cherry Bombe cookbook and we had a hundred different recipes, it was like getting 100 different languages. But it sort of is a language.
Grace Young:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
It made me appreciate chefs in a way I hadn't before that they do all have their own language. Tell us about the Time Life cookbooks. Some of our younger listeners might not know about that cookbook series and what made it so special at the time.
Grace Young:
So, the most famous Time Life cookbook series was the Foods of the World. And that was before my time. It's legendary because it covered the cuisines all around the world. Every volume was beautifully done. And then there was the Good Cook series, which came out of London, I believe. Or the main consultants and that was really gorgeous too. The first series that I worked on for Time Life Books was a series called Great Meals in Minutes. And it was very cool because we were hiring basically chefs from all across the United States to contribute menus that could be done in less than an hour. And we worked with some of the most famous people from Joyce Goldstein, Barbara Trap. Oh my God, Paula Wolfert. It was a very exciting time to work with the best experts at that time. And it was also an international series because there was the Chinese volume, the French volume, the Italian. And then we did volumes that were about just the poultry volume or the meat or vegetables. It was a really cool job to have.
Kerry Diamond:
Was the company based in the Bay Area?
Grace Young:
Time Life Books was at that point based in Virginia. But we were working from New York City.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, okay. So, after college you moved to New York?
Grace Young:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Got it. I was going to ask what led you here eventually? Did you miss the Bay Area?
Grace Young:
I did miss the Bay Area, but I always would fly back to San Francisco like two or three times a year.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Your first cookbook, the Wisdom of The Chinese Kitchen from 1999 is about to go into its 15th printing. Congratulations on that. That's a huge feat. What led to you writing that book?
Grace Young:
So, in my 30s I realized that I did some Chinese cooking, but I had spent so much time exploring French cooking, Italian cooking, I love California cuisine, that I hadn't really paid attention to my own family's cooking. And do you know how so many people just assume that they go home and their mother makes the Thanksgiving meal, but you don't really consciously think I need to learn all of these recipes. In my 30s I realized that every time I flew home to San Francisco, that there was such a sense of comfort in eating classic Cantonese food. And I said to my friend Allen Richardson, who's a fantastic food photographer that I wanted to bring him home to San Francisco and I wanted him to record the photographs of my family for Chinese New Years. Because their celebration was very, very traditional. And at that point, lots of uncles and aunties were already celebrating Chinese New Years in a restaurant.
But my parents did it in a very traditional way. They made all the dishes themselves and my mother would take days to prep and buy the groceries. And so Alan flew home with me, he took these gorgeous photographs and he said to me, do you know how to make all these dishes? And I said, no. And that's when I realized, yeah, I should record all these recipes. I just wanted the photographs. There was no intention of making a cookbook. And then at that point I decided to ask my cousins how many traditional home cook dishes they knew how to make. And all of them said only one or two. And all of us had only been raised in traditional Cantonese cooking. And one cousin said to me, "I'm a great Italian cook." But when it comes to Chinese food, you can't beat the takeout in San Francisco.
So, I thought to myself I should just record my family's recipes because it would be so easy for me to do this. And this will be my gift for future generations. And so I started flying home and cooking with not just my mother and father, but my uncles and aunties and family, friends. And I thought the whole idea was just to get the recipes. But in cooking with my parents, they completely opened up about their lives. They'd always been very shy and reserved, but somehow cooking was a very comfortable way for them to talk about the past. And so in the process of doing Wisdom in the Chinese Kitchen, I actually learned so much about my family's history. And so it became a memoir cookbook.
Kerry Diamond:
When did the idea pop in your head that this should be a cookbook?
Grace Young:
After I came back with Alan and had taken these photographs, I realized that I should really record the recipes. And that's when my friend, Pam Thomas, she had been a cookbook editor. She said to me, "You should write your family's recipes." And I said, "Well, I don't know how to write a cookbook." I'd always done-
Kerry Diamond:
Even though you had worked on dozens and dozens of them.
Grace Young:
Yeah. But I didn't know how to write a book proposal. And she said to me, "I will help you." And so because of Pam Thomas, I was able to write the cookbook proposal and Simon & Schuster bought it.
Kerry Diamond:
Was it hard to get a cookbook deal?
Grace Young:
No, it wasn't. I was very lucky.
Kerry Diamond:
Your second book is titled Breath of a Wok. What does that term mean? Breath of a Wok.
Grace Young:
So, in China everybody's stir fries, but the Cantonese are considered the great masters. And when a stir-fry is made perfectly the Cantonese say it possesses wok hei. So, you know what wok means and hei in Cantonese is the same as chi in Mandarin. So, it means life force. So, the description or how people describe wok hei varies from person to person. Some people describe wok hei as the, literally the taste of the wok.
But I describe it as the breath of the wok because hei being life force is also your Chi, your energy. And it's always made the most sense to me. But it's when the food has this very, very concentrated flavor and intense smoky aroma. And I often say to people that it's like food that's just come off the grill. When you first eat something right off the grill, it has this intense smoky flavor. And five minutes later, it's still delicious, but you've lost something. So, food that has just come right out of the wok has an intensity and aroma that is very, very special. But within minutes it's disappeared.
Kerry Diamond:
Was this the book that led to you becoming America's wok authority?
Grace Young:
I think so. I think so. I don't think anyone had ever written a book that focused on the wok quite the way I did with the Breath of a Wok.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us why woks are so special.
Grace Young:
So, I think it's the only cooking utensil that has been used continually for over 2000 years. Many people in this country call the wok, the stir-fry pan. But it's so much more. With a wok you not only can stir-fry, you can pan fry, steam, boil, poach. You can braise. You can deep fat fry and smoke. And I have discovered that I use my wok for pan frying a steak, for scrambling eggs, for popping corn, for roasting a spatchcock chicken. Its versatility is incredible. And the design of the wok is so brilliant. The round bottom, which concentrates the heat. The high sides, which means that there's less spattering onto your stove. It means that you have this really deep pan so that you can stir-fry vigorously. When you try and do something like that in a skillet, if you were stir frying rice, so much of the rice would land on your stove top, but because of the high sides-
Kerry Diamond:
You have a lot of Grace Young wok rules. I would love to know what some of those rules are. So, everything from nonstick to cleaning, there are a lot of them. Tell us some of your top rules.
Grace Young:
So, when you say the word wok right now, and you walk right into a cookware store, there are so many different woks that you can buy. They come in nonstick, which as far as I'm concerned is not a wok and belongs in the garbage. You can buy anodized aluminum, which is a waste of money because they're so expensive and there's going to be sticking. I guarantee everything will stick in an anodized aluminum wok. You could buy stainless steel, also not great. Will have sticking. I prefer carbon steel. And with carbon steel, the more you cook with the wok, the more the surface acquires a natural non-stick surface. So, I call it ancient natural non-stick cookware. And it's basically the same concept as a cast iron skillet that the more you cook with it, the surface acquires a patina, which means that you need less and less oil for stir frying, pan frying, whatever.
Kerry Diamond:
People get very anxious about seasoning their woks. Why is that? And what do you recommend?
Grace Young:
I don't know why people are intimidated, but it's because seasoning is not a concept that we're accustomed to. For most of the cookware that we use, you do need to season a cast iron skillet. But people are very, very scared about this process.
Kerry Diamond:
You have a great video about all of this.
Grace Young:
Yeah. So, that's why I created the Wok Therapist. And even if you don't cook with the wok, people love watching this video because they identify with the fact that we are so judgemental about ourselves. And we are so anxious to reach perfection immediately. And when you start cooking with a carbon steel wok, it takes a while for that beautiful patina to look gorgeous. So, people expect that you'll go from your brand new wok, which looks like a stainless steel pan in that it's a shiny silver pan. And then immediately have this beautiful black patina, like one of my 30 or 40 year old woks. And in the beginning it looks like you've made a mistake. The first time you season your wok sometimes the pan turns orange. Sometimes it turns blue. Sometimes they're awful black, splotchy spots all around the wok. It looks like you've ruined the pan.
So, immediately people are just like, they're ready to give up, throw it away. They're convinced they made a mistake. So, I get so many emails from new time wokers who are like, I'm sure I made a mistake. Should I go and buy a new wok? And it's always fine. It's just that it looks bad, but you have to keep on cooking. And each time you're cooking, you're literally burning oil into the metal. And the term is polymerizing. So, actually the oil is literally hardening on the surface and that's what creates the natural nonstick surface.
But in the first months that you cook with a wok, it just has these, a splotchy look, it doesn't look right from what we are accustomed to in cooking with stainless steel or nonstick, right? So, you just have to stick with it, keep on cooking and not get fixated on how the wok looks, but focus on the fact that almost immediately, there will be no sticking. So, focus on just making more and more stir fries. And the wok will eventually turn color and it starts to deepen in its color. Sometimes it gets this tea color. Finally, a mahogany color. And then with years of cooking, you attain that beautiful black patina.
Kerry Diamond:
I've seen the photos of your woks and they are gorgeous. So, I can understand why people are not patient in terms of getting their wok to that point. You've had some cleaning mishaps. How does one clean a wok?
Grace Young:
So, it's very simple. After you've made your dish, you have to eat your stir fry immediately because you don't want to miss the wok hei. And so once the wok is cooled, I put it in the sink. I soak it in water for a few minutes. And then I use-
Kerry Diamond:
Water, just plain water -
Grace Young:
Just plain water. I use a Scotch-Brite sponge, the soft side, and just rub off whatever is stuck to the wok. And if there's anything that doesn't come off, then I use the scrubby side very gently. And generally everything comes off. I rinse it in hot water, put it back on the stove and then dry it on low heat until all the water is evaporated. So, it's basically the same way you clean a cast iron skillet. Some people use a little dish washing soap when they wash their wok. So, there are two schools of thinking on how to wash a wok. I believe in just hot water. But if there's a little soap, that's in my sponge. It's okay. Years ago I was on a TV show and after I came off the TV show, I was talking to the host. And as I was talking to her, suddenly the dishwasher from the production team hands me my wok. And he has this very earnest look on his face. And he says, your wok was very dirty. Oh, it took me a long time to clean it.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God. I've got goosebumps.
Grace Young:
Yeah. And he basically scrubbed it back to a shiny silver pan.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh.
Grace Young:
And I remember-
Kerry Diamond:
Back to its factory settings.
Grace Young:
Going home-
Kerry Diamond:
How many decades of patina?
Grace Young:
It was about 20 years.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh.
Grace Young:
My husband said to me in the cab ride, you did so great on the TV show. Why are you like looking so sad? And I said to him, did you see what he did to my wok? But that wok came back. You just, you start again. And the patina always comes back. You cannot destroy a wok. So, it hurts.
Kerry Diamond:
This happened again recently though, right?
Grace Young:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And is this why you own so many woks?
Grace Young:
That's not why I own so many woks, but I have to say it really does hurt when you see years and years of patina just scrubbed off. It really hurts.
Kerry Diamond:
That's painful. Yeah. When you're shopping for a wok, so you need a heat-proof handle.
Grace Young:
So, the wok that I recommend is a 14-inch flat bottom carbon steel wok with a long wood handle and a short helper wood handle. And so when I put the wok in the oven, I actually take old like dish rags and get them sopping wet, and wrap the wet rags around the wooden handles and then wrap aluminum foil around that. And that's how I can put the wok into the oven. But you have to be very careful when you remove the wok from the oven, you have to really cool down the wok and the heat inside that aluminum foil is going to be piping hot. So, even like an hour later, you have to gently pull that foil off because suddenly steam will just like be released from those towels.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Got it. Let's jump to your work on behalf of Chinatown and the AAPI community. You mentioned in a recent PBS interview that despite living in New York for several decades, you had taken Chinatown for granted. What did you mean by that?
Grace Young:
I came and went in Chinatown and I had my favorite places to eat and shop, but I didn't really introduce myself to anyone there, just the way that you don't introduce yourself, I don't think, to the clerk at Whole Foods or the markets that you shop at. You come and go and you do your little thing. But as I saw Chinatown struggling to survive, I realized that I needed to step up and to do what I could to help out.
Kerry Diamond:
And Chinatown, some folks might not remember or realize if they haven't been paying attention that the Chinatowns across the country were really the canaries and the coal mine for COVID. We saw the effects there first, as people started avoiding Chinatowns.
Grace Young:
So, as early as January 2020, when there were no incidents of COVID in Chinatown, Chinatowns across the United States were shunned because of misinformation and xenophobia.
Kerry Diamond:
And several beloved places were closing down before they were even mandated to.
Grace Young:
Yes, in New York's Chinatown, there is a wonderful restaurant that was over 40 years old that is called Hoy Wong on Mott Street. And it closed before the lockdown. But in January and February, because people were misinformed and avoiding Chinatown, Chinatown businesses lost between 40 to 80% of their normal business from just people avoiding Chinatown.
Kerry Diamond:
What made you realize that you needed to speak out on behalf of Chinatown?
Grace Young:
So, in March 2020, the director of Poster House Museum, Julia Knight reached out to me. I didn't know Julia at all. She calls me at home and she said that Poster House was closed as were all the museums in New York City. And she said they currently had a Chinese poster exhibition called the sleeping giant. And I was supposed to do some work for Poster House Museum, do some cultural lectures. And she said, "We know that Chinatown is hurting. Is there anything you can think of that we as Poster House Museum can do to help Chinatown?" So, I said to her, "I actually had this idea that I wanted to go to Chinatown and interview shop and restaurant owners. And I was going to post these interviews on my social media, on my Instagram. And I thought that if New Yorkers heard these personal stories of how people were fighting to stay alive, that New Yorkers would rally their support."
And she said, "If you do these interviews, we will put them on the Poster House website. How soon can you do it?" And because she said, how soon I said, "I'll be there this weekend." I am sure I would never have done these interviews otherwise, because it was just an idea in my head. I hadn't actually thought it through. Dan the videographer and I end up in Chinatown 48 hours later. I didn't know Dan.
I did a post on Instagram and said, "I need a volunteer videographer." So, we are in Chinatown on Sunday, March 15th, doing interviews. And all these owners are saying, we can't go on. They have tears in their eyes. A few of them say today is our last day. Business is so bad. We cannot continue. So, we found ourselves in the middle of living history on one of Chinatown's darkest days and had no idea that a few hours later Mayor de Blasio would put New York City in lockdown. And seeing the faces of all the workers and owners and waiters has still stuck with me. It's been two and a half years. It was just heartbreaking. And it made me realize that we were at risk of losing Chinatown. And so it made me realize that I needed to do everything in my power to help in any way that I could.
Kerry Diamond:
So, that series that you worked on was called Coronavirus Chinatown stories. And folks can still watch those now. And they're as heartbreaking today, I think as they probably were back when you did them.
Grace Young:
And they're on the Poster House website.
Kerry Diamond:
What are some other things you did on behalf of China? I mean, you did so many things, Grace, I don't even know where you want to start. But tell us some other things that you worked on.
Grace Young:
I remember that EatingWell magazine reached out to me to write a piece, a stir-fry story. And I said, "Sure, but could I also write a piece about how Chinatown needs our support?" The kitchen wanted to make my cookbook Stir-Fry to the Sky's Edge, their cookbook of the month, that summer. And could I write some pieces for them? Yes. But could I also write a piece about supporting Chinatown and to explain to people how much Chinatown was hurting? I found out that a friend of mine was sheltering in place. So, I was walking into Chinatown every single day. I ate more takeout in 2020 than I have in my entire life. But I was trying to support the restaurants. I was trying to support the markets, the stores. And so I would ask her every time I went down, what can I buy for you?
Because my husband and I could only eat so much. I did fundraisers to raise money, to support legacy restaurants and they cooked meals to feed those who were in need in Chinatown. And then the media reached out to me, BBC reached out to do a story, Smithsonian magazine. And I reached out to the media that I knew to try and get word out because unless you were in Chinatown, most people didn't seem to realize that Chinatown was hurting. And then by fall of 2020, I approached the Beard Foundation and I suggested that we should partner to start a Instagram campaign called #savechineserestaurants. And so we just asked people to post a photo of their favorite dish or tell us their favorite Chinese restaurant. And it was this beautiful love letter to the Chinese restaurant industry, which really needed help at that point. So, people posted these stories about how their families had been going to a particular restaurant. Like since the time they were a kid or their favorite dishes. And it became this beautiful collection of the best places to eat Chinese food in this country.
Kerry Diamond:
Had you been an activist before this or was this tradition of activism new to you?
Grace Young:
I have never been an activist. I am a very quiet and reserved person. I get very shy about, I'm just not a person who's active in the community. So, this was a whole new side of me that I was as surprised by as all my friends and family.
Kerry Diamond:
Where did this come from, Grace?
Grace Young:
I think it came from the fact that my conscience was so bothered by what I was witnessing that the smallest acts were important. So, there's this wonderful store in New York's Chinatown called K. K. Discount. We interviewed Mr. Lee for coronavirus Chinatown stories. And in this interview we interviewed him in June 2020, which is after New York City came out of lockdown. K. K. Discount is this little mom and pop store that specializes in woks, bamboo steamers, traditional Chinese dishes, just everyday houseware items. And when we interviewed Mr. Lee in June 2020, he said his business was down about 50%, but he also had a restaurant supply business that he supplied restaurants with different equipment. And he said that was down 90%. But he was so chipper and he said to me, at the end of the interview, he said, "My daughter is saying to me, I should retire. But I love the relationship I have with my customers."
And he said, "And today I had one or two new customers and I just have to do a good job and hopefully they'll come back." And I remember as we left the interview Dan Ahn, and I looked at each other and I said one or two customers and he noticed. Like when you walk into Trader Joe's, does anyone notice that you're a new customer or Uniqlo or Whole Foods? But Mr. Lee is noticing he had one new customer.
I would go in there and he would say that I had devoted my Instagram completely to Chinatown. So, I would post about K. K. Discount and he would say to me, "Somebody came in today and it's because of your post." And so I realized that every little bit counts. And my father used to say to me that you have to work like hell in Chinatown, just to make a few cents. So, when I would walk by these stores or their restaurants, and I would see that they were empty and I would think to myself, these people are still coming in seven days a week working a 10 to 12-hour day and people aren't showing up. So, I have to do everything in my power to get word out there that we need to show our support. So, for me, no act was too small. Mr. Lee-
Kerry Diamond:
It's an amazing reminder, how people can use their platform, because you didn't have a huge following.
Grace Young:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
But you were able to amplify it significantly.
Grace Young:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Since you mentioned K. K. Discount, there was an awful fire that hurt them badly. And they're still closed today.
Grace Young:
It's horrible.
Kerry Diamond:
There is a GoFundMe for them. Did you start the GoFundMe?
Grace Young:
I didn't, but I know the person who did. So, if you just Google GoFundMe K. K. Discount, you can make a contribution. It would be so wonderful because the fire was on the fifth floor. It was not in K. K. Discount, but the city has evacuated all the residents from the building and the two stores that are below. And there is no sign of when K. K. can reopen. So, you actually can go on their website right now and order-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, good to know.
Grace Young:
A wok.
Kerry Diamond:
People can get one of the woks you recommended.
Grace Young:
And I have to say their website is not a pretty website. You have to be prepared, but their wok-
Kerry Diamond:
Be patient people.
Grace Young:
Is fantastic and it's extremely reasonable.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Good to know. So, folks, if you're thinking about ordering a wok, after listening to this interview, we would love if you could order it from K. K. We'll put a link to their GoFundMe in the show notes-
Grace Young:
Oh thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Also. So Grace, as if this wasn't enough, all this work that you're doing on behalf of Chinatown and trying to just as one woman save Chinatown. At the same time, there's are all these hate crimes directed toward the AAPI community. All of a sudden you have two very heavy things you're advocating for. The survival of Chinatown and the very survival of its residents. What did you also take on to combat the violence against the community?
Grace Young:
So, the way I see the violence, the impact of the anti-Asian hate crimes is that it means that many locals are afraid to come out. There was actually a study that was released in March. It was a small study, but it showed that in New York City, 75% of Asian seniors are afraid to leave their homes. So, that-
Kerry Diamond:
It's heartbreaking.
Grace Young:
That means that people aren't coming into Chinatown to do their normal shopping or errands or coming out to eat. Actually right now we're in summer and the weather is warm and there's a certain vibrancy that you feel when you're in Chinatown during the daytime. But at seven, eight o'clock at night, it's very quiet, especially on weeknights, sometimes weekends there's a sense of the old Chinatown. And so businesses are hurting. So, it's really important for everyone to show up to Chinatown right now.
And in the Fall of 2021, we realized that the Save Chinese Restaurants Campaign that I had started with the Beard Foundation in 2020 needed to evolve. And we started the #loveAAPI campaign and Poster House Museum also partnered with us. And the idea behind this was at that point, I was feeling such despair to see Chinatown hurting and to realize that AAPI, mom-and-pop restaurants and stores all across the country were hurting. And I had seen a video that Jacques Pépin did in the Spring of 2021. And in this video, like all of his videos are about cooking French food at home. But there he is in his kitchen and he says, "I'm very excited because tonight I'm having Chinese food." And he has these takeout containers on his kitchen counter. And he speaks about how a friend is coming over and how much he loves the dumplings.
And he has his soup and how wonderful the food is. And then in the text of the post, he writes, "It's so important for us to be multicultural and to fight racism and violence of any kind." And based on that post, I was so moved by it I thought the best way for us to fight the anti-Asian hate is to show our love and to show our love for these poor mom and pop businesses, whether you live in Chinatown or you live in a city or town that doesn't have a Chinatown.
Show up to your local AAPI, Asian American Pacific Islander restaurant, grocer, bakery, supermarket, shop, and post a video or a photo of what you're eating, what you bought, tell us why you love this establishment and use the #loveAAPI. And I think it's a very, very powerful statement to fight the hate with love. And Poster House Museum created this gorgeous poster, which is a Lotus flower and in Asian culture the Lotus flower is very powerful because it's a beautiful flower. But it emerges out of mud. And so for me, I feel that I hope that the AAPI community can come out of this period of hate and darkness and be more powerful and united.
Kerry Diamond:
That's beautiful. We interviewed the founders of Heart of Dinner, just all the organizations that have sprung up over the past few years. So, many young people fighting on behalf of Chinatown and the AAPI community. A friend just launched something for the AAPI individuals in the design community, William Lee, who I know you know. I think I might have read this on your Instagram. So, I apologize from misquoting you, but you said something about how much it heartens you to see young people taking action.
Grace Young:
It's been very powerful, but I think we're very lucky in New York's Chinatown. There are so many amazing grassroots organizations that have sprung up, but I have to say San Francisco's Chinatown, did you know that there are 46 shuttered storefronts on Grant Avenue.
Kerry Diamond:
Just Grant alone?
Grace Young:
Just Grant Avenue. And San Francisco's my hometown. That is absolutely heartbreaking. There are organizations in San Francisco's Chinatown, but I don't think that they have anything like what New York's Chinatown has. And Oakland's Chinatown is really hurting. And so many of the hate crimes were targeted against the elderly in Oakland's Chinatown and robbing stores. So, Chinatown's across the country really need our help. But especially the historic ones. San Francisco's Chinatown has the longest history. It dates from the 1840s. And I often say that San Francisco Chinatown and New York's Chinatown to me are as important as the Liberty Bell in telling the story of this country.
Kerry Diamond:
I think you've said this a few times, something to the effect of when we lose our history, we lose our soul.
Grace Young:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I have to ask, and we've been trying to ask everyone this because it's more important now than ever. How are you taking care of yourself, Grace Young, mentally and physically?
Grace Young:
I have been really exercising. At least three times a week. I met my physical therapy office, Stroma. Stroma Therapy, which I-
Kerry Diamond:
Shout out.
Grace Young:
Adore here in New York City. And I have been on the elliptical machine doing my leg presses and really trying to stay fit. And I think it's really critical right now. I see my acupuncturist once a week and trying to go to bed early.
Kerry Diamond:
Is that hard for you?
Grace Young:
It is. I'm a -
Kerry Diamond:
I'm a night owl.
Grace Young:
I'm a night owl. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Grace Young:
My acupuncturist says to me, you must go to bed early for your organs to be able to rejuvenate during the night.
Kerry Diamond:
You're doing so much. What's next for you, Grace?
Grace Young:
I feel like I need to concentrate right now on the Love AAPI Campaign and doing as much as I can for Chinatowns. Right now I feel as though there is more interest and I need to capitalize on that and people don't seem to realize that Chinatowns are hurting. The country is feeling that everything is coming back and I feel that it is, but it isn't for Chinatowns. So, I need to do as much as I can to raise awareness that if we don't show up regularly at Chinatown restaurants and stores, we will lose it.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you all have your marching orders from Grace. She's told us what to do. So, I hope that all of you take that to heart. Grace, thank you so much for your time and for everything that you've done, we didn't even get to talk about the James Beard Leadership Award that you're getting. I mean, you've worked so tirelessly over the past two and a half years, so I'm happy to hear you're taking care of yourself. And again, whatever anybody can do to support Grace and her causes would be amazing. So, thank you for your time.
Grace Young:
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you so much to Grace Young for joining me. To keep up on all things Grace, you can follow her on Instagram @stirfryguru or her website, graceyoung.com. And be sure to pick up a copy of one of her classic cookbooks, including the Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen, Classic Family Recipes for Celebration and Healing. Thank you to Brightland for supporting today's show. Check out all their gorgeous products at brightland.co. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Thank you to Joseph Hazan, studio engineer at Newsstand Studios and to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You're the bombe.