Courtney Storer Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe. And I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Each week, we talk to the coolest culinary personalities around, the folks shaping and shaking up the food scene.
Joining me today is Courtney Storer, the culinary producer on the hit show of the summer, The Bear. The food world is obsessed with the show. If you haven't watched The Bear yet, you can stream it right now on Hulu. The Bear captures the camaraderie and chaos of restaurant life in a way that few works of fiction ever have. Or, for that matter, non-fiction. Courtney is a big part of why the show has so much heart and soul. She has had such an interesting journey through the food world. I am thrilled she could stop by to share her story as well as some of the inside scoop on how The Bear came to be.
Today's show is presented by Wild Planet. The company known for its sustainable seafood and its leadership in the category. I grew up on tuna fish sandwiches and tuna noodle casserole. I'm sure some of you did, too. And I still love canned tuna today. It's one of my top 10 pantry essentials, in fact. Lately, I've been using Wild Planet Skipjack and Albacore canned varieties for my tuna salad, which is one of my go-to lunch options when I am working from home. I love to dice some carrots and celery very fine. Show off those knife skills. And mix it into the tuna with some mayo. If I have some fresh dill or parsley, I chop that up, too, and toss it right in. Then, I put the tuna salad into half an avocado, and sprinkle with some lemon juice and everything bagel seasoning. Or the tuna salad goes on top of some torn or chopped lettuce leaves, whatever I have in the fridge. It's delish.
The next time you are in the Wild Planet section of your favorite grocery or health food store, I want you to look for the cans marked Skipjack Wild Tuna or Albacore Wild Tuna. Sustainably pole and line caught. 100% wild tuna and sea salt. That's what it will say on the label. Those are my favorites. These Wild Planet tuna steaks come from smaller migratory fish that are lower in mercury. They are hand-cut and hand-packed, and cooked directly in the can just once to retain their natural juices, omega-3 oils, and firm texture.
There's no extra water or oil, so you don't have to drain the liquid that's in there. Another thing you should know is that eco-friendly fishing practices aren't the least expensive, easiest, or most efficient, but they are the most sustainable and bring the most economic benefit to coastal communities around the world. Remember, there's just one Wild Planet. Visit wildplanetfoods.com for more. Now, let's check in with today's guest.
Courtney Storer, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Courtney Storer:
Thank you so much. Happy to be here.
Kerry Diamond:
I want to talk a little bit about you and your childhood, because I'm guessing a lot of this might have informed the show. We'll find out. So you grew up in Chicago.
Courtney Storer:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
What was your childhood like?
Courtney Storer:
So I grew up outside of Chicago, north side of Chicago. I have two brothers. An older brother, Chris, and a younger brother, Corey. But my mom is all Italian. We grew up in a sort of big, complicated Italian family. And sadly, when I was around nine or 10 years old, my parents went through a crazy divorce. And the dysfunction kind of carried on through that, which was really hard. Most people say about my childhood, "Oh, my gosh. The big Italian family." I was like, "Yes and no." A lot of the love I got from my family was at a young age, but I kind of sought it out later in life to kind of cook Italian food and all that. And so, I kind of pursued restaurants because I went to the places that I loved, and admired, and kind of wanted to recreate those things for myself.
Kerry Diamond:
This second family, of sorts.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
You started working young, right?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. So I actually lied about my age to get my first job at Sonny's, which is very funny. I had to be 16. And I remember going to this restaurant my whole life as a kid. And it was the local restaurant called Sonny's Family Owned. I went in. I took a long shot. I knew I was too young. But I needed to work. At this time, my family was having a hard time. My mom was a single mom and I was trying to help out. And went in, just confidently said, "I'm ready to work." And they're like, "What are we going to have you do?" And I was like, "I'll bartend. I'll host." Like, "You can't even drink. What are you talking about?"
And surprisingly, they were like, "You know what? We remember you. We know you used to come in and get the ravioli. You're hired." So it started there. And I would always sneak my way into back of house. I always came in early even then, because the grandmother, her name was Babe, everyone called her. And she was Frank, the owner's mother. And she would come in and make the cannoli shells and stuff the cannolis every morning. And I was like, "Move over. I'll help you." And she really influenced me significantly. And I think because I lost that contact with my immediate family, I was so drawn to the family that I was able to create in these spaces.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. So tell us more about Babe. I have this vision in my head of what Babe looks like.
Courtney Storer:
She had red hair. And I think she wore red glasses. And she just had the most amazing style. And she really saw my enthusiasm and kind of mentored it a little bit. I would just have my break outside and just eat some of her salad dressing with bread and her sauce. And she'd be like, "I can make you a salad. You can eat the whole meal." And I was like, "No." I didn't want to take up too much space, but I was drawn to her food. And I still, to this day, make her salad dressing. It's like my homage to them. I always call it the Sonny's dressing, because it's special. And it's a secret recipe of mine, that every time I make a salad, people are like, "What is this dressing?" And at this point, I've given it to everybody, but…
Kerry Diamond:
You have to tell us what's in the salad dressing, Courtney. Come on.
Courtney Storer:
It's a lot of cracked black pepper and red wine vinegar, shallot, and a pinch of sugar, and dried oregano. The thing is with Babe, she always used a pinch of sugar in everything, in the red sauce, in her salad dressing. I actually learned that a lot from women in kitchens. And I still do that now where I advise other cooks. I'm like, "Try to balance the acid with a little bit of sweetness." Maybe it's sugar. Maybe it's honey. Maybe it's the white onion adding in those little nuances that make something yours.
That's one thing that I've always carried with from Babe is that little pinch of sugar. So at Sonny's, I would watch the cooks. That's when I knew I had that little inclination. I was wanting to be back of house, but Babe herself was like, "Listen to me. If you work behind the line, you will have no life. You will have no kids. You will not get married." She was like, "Don't commit to this. Just enjoy it. You love it. You get to enjoy it. Don't make it your life." And I've always gotten that advice.
Kerry Diamond:
And you've ignored it every time.
Courtney Storer:
Yes, I did. I did.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, Babe's advice. So how long did you stay at Sonny's? Did you work all through high school?
Courtney Storer:
All through high school. It was hard to leave. But I also saw at Sonny's that same crazy dysfunction that I could see at home, I also saw in restaurants. This kind of ability to snap, and then show up the next day. It was crazy there as well. I stuck around just whenever they needed me. Even I went to college and they would call me in on the weekends. But at that time, I'd also advanced into more fine dining spaces. I went and got a job for the Boka Group in Chicago at this place called GT Fish & Oyster and worked for Giuseppe Tentori, who was a huge influence on my life. And then, I also helped out at Natalino's, which is the same family that owns Mr. Beef in Chicago. So I was bouncing around predominantly in restaurants that were owned by Italian families.
Kerry Diamond:
Who gave you your first chance in the kitchen?
Courtney Storer:
I would say Giuseppe would let me play around at lunch, because it would be dead. He'd be like, "Courtney, go play at the dessert." And I'd be like, "Okay, chef. You got it." But I would say it actually came at Whole Foods, ironically. So there's a lot about my life that seems like I've worked everywhere. It's because I always had two jobs. I didn't come with a big nest egg financially. I had to create those opportunities and be very resourceful. So I found if I had a corporate job, I could get health insurance. And then, the restaurant on the weekends would give me cash, so I could pay my bills or go out for a nice dinner. But I needed both.
It was hard to get by just on my nine-to-five job. And I kind of burned the candle at both ends. In conjunction with working in these restaurants, I had graduated from college. I went to work at UPS in human resources, stayed there for six years, and eventually transitioned to Whole Foods. But while at Whole Foods, I would find myself in the Prepared Foods department. Now, I was just the HR person, but I would be constantly in Prepared Foods, kind of asking the chef, "Hey, why are you marinating the salmon like that? And have you thought about roasting it instead of baking it this way?"
Kerry Diamond:
And were they all like, "Why is this HR lady asking us these questions?"
Courtney Storer:
Yes. No, they loved it. They loved to cook as well, so we would talk about things. And the store manager at one point approached me, and was like, "Listen, kid. You're an amazing HR person, but I can see your passion when you're talking about this food. Why have you never pursued being a chef? You could do that here. You could work in Prepared Foods." And his name was Mark Barbieri. He's still a great friend of mine. But I would say he was the first one who was like, "Go to culinary school. Try it." And I started to go to culinary school at night, worked during the day at Whole Foods, and then actually went for it.
Kerry Diamond:
Which school did you go to, Courtney?
Courtney Storer:
I went to the International Culinary Center in Campbell, California. I went and watched one class at night. And the chef was making risotto. And I was just supposed to be observing, and he kind of walked away, and was instructing. And I went up in the class, because I could see that the heat was really high, and I turned it down. And he shot back a look at me, and was like, "Excuse me. Who the hell are you? Number one. Number two. You're not supposed to touch anything." And I was like, "I'm so sorry, Chef. Your heat was really high in the risotto." And he's like, "What? You know how to cook risotto better than I do?” And I was like, "No, but I love cooking risotto." And it's this running joke because he ended up being my instructor when I came back to go to school. And so, he razzed me and was really hard on me.
Kerry Diamond:
And who was right about the flame level?
Courtney Storer:
He was right. I just thought it was too high. It was higher than what I would do, but I didn't know what the hell... I mean, I was a home cook. But I'm Italian, so I was like, "I know risotto. This is easy. This French guy..." But I was wrong. And I definitely got schooled and checked into my place a little bit. He ended up being another huge influence on making it happen.
Kerry Diamond:
So how did you wind up in California? Tell me about the leap from Chicago to California.
Courtney Storer:
California was never part of the plan. I was in a relationship and engaged, and potentially going to get married. And my partner was like, "Let's move out to San Jose." He was studying to be a psychologist. And so, I followed him. Once I got out there, and I was free from my family dynamics, and had this space to kind of think on my own, I started to really realize that I could actually try this thing, that it was scary and it might mean less money, but there was no turning back. There was one chance I could have, and I wanted to take and jump into the unknown. And sadly, that relationship didn't work out, but I'm so grateful for it, because it really sprung me into this next chapter of my life, at the time.
Kerry Diamond:
Now, somehow you wind up in Paris. Walk us through how you wound up in Paris and what you did there.
Courtney Storer:
So Xavier Mayonove was my culinary professor who, as I was graduating, I had won this award in culinary school for this concept I created. And he was like, "I really want you to challenge yourself. Which restaurant are you going to work with after you leave?" And I hesitated. And he's like, "The hesitation isn't a good sign. Let me suggest for you that you go to Paris if you can. Go to Italy, cook in an environment. Burst your American bubble. Go for it. Be out of your comfort zone. Really challenge yourself." And I was like, "Chef, I have $900 in my bank account. How am I going to go to Paris?" And he's like, "That's what credit cards are for." And I was like, "Oh, geez." But I barely had any credit. So I'm like, "I don't know if you know who you're talking to." So I saved up, I checked in on all my PTO, and bought a ticket one way to Paris.
And I actually had an interesting thing happen with Chef Jeremiah [Stone] from Contra and Wildair. He had also gone to my culinary school and known mutual chefs. And my chef told me, "Hey, why don't you reach out to him? He was just in Paris." So over a few emails, he helped me strategize the move to Paris. Thank God for him, because he really helped me out and didn't need to. We didn't know each other. I made the move. Literally, got an Airbnb. My phone didn't work. I showed up in Paris. The two restaurants my chef had written down were closed for vacation. So those two places didn't work out. But I had known about Verjus from Jeremiah, because he had worked there. It felt so nice as someone who he didn't even know for him to do that was really generous. It really helped. And sat on the stairs at Verjus. The chef showed up. Immediately, I said in French, like, "Désolée. My French is terrible." And he spoke back to me in English. And I was like, "Oh, my God. You speak English."
Kerry Diamond:
So wait, you planted yourself on the steps and ambushed him to get a job.
Courtney Storer:
A little bit. I had emailed him. And right then and there, I was there. I had landed in Paris, put my stuff down, and then gone to the restaurant. But the first day I was there, I cut myself very badly.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh.
Courtney Storer:
I scared the crap out of the pastry chef because I was bleeding everywhere.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, Courtney.
Courtney Storer:
Masking taped my finger. And then, I worked the rest of the shift in terrible pain, shucking these peas for service. My thumb is split in half. It was bleeding through all these bandages. It's just like one of those classic stories. If I can do this and make it through it today—all the hardships in life—it prepares you for those moments of “how mentally tough are you to not let your physical body break you.”
Kerry Diamond:
They let you come back day two?
Courtney Storer:
Not because of my skill, I don't think. But I will say this, I was a good cleaner. What I couldn't do in physical cooking talent, I could out-clean. So that helped me. I was like, "I will scrub this kitchen to earn my respect." And I just tried to do that. That first day, I made everyone family meal. I broke the oven because I didn't know how to use this European convection oven. And the real oven for service was so far and I was by the pastry chef, using her things.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, my God.
Courtney Storer:
I turned the heat on so high that I broke it. I short circuited it. I just had to be elbow-to-elbow with her. And she was so pissed. And I was like, "Oh, my God. I'm so sorry."
Kerry Diamond:
So they let you come back. You're a good cleaner. What happened after that?
Courtney Storer:
I really was bad every single day. I was the cook for the wine bar. And then, I would assist. So I would go in early, do lunch service by myself with the other cooks prepping for dinner, because they had a little wine cave. And talk about vulnerability, I was cooking service while the rest of them were prepping. So you can see all these shortcomings, right? If I overcook something, I'm not kidding, my mise en place, and I'm slow, I'm dropping things. I was so green that I had no muscle memory yet. And cooking is a lot of that. It's understanding your space, your peripheral. You move like an athlete or a dancer, but I had none of that. It was like I had two left feet in this space. So every single day, I felt the pressure from the team. And then, being this chick, get her off the line. I burnt my other cook, my friend Anu, who's a dear friend still. But we laugh about it, because he was like, "I'm so sorry for my attitude towards you." And I was like, "No, it's fine. I was a mess."
Kerry Diamond:
But they really gave you a chance. That's amazing.
Courtney Storer:
They did. I think, if I could give anybody advice, a lot of what helped me was having a positive attitude. Being okay with not being great and not having an ego about it. I tried to ask questions, look for guidance when I could get it. I also was okay with saying, "Hey, I don't know how to do this. What do I do?" And then, the embarrassment that kind of comes with that. The eye roll, the frustration. When cooks are busy, they really sometimes don't have time to teach the young duckling, the little grasshopper, how to fly, grow up. I just got used to people being like, "I don't have time." And then, someone would be gracious enough to show me.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you have the, I don't know, the wherewithal, the tenacity, the whatever to not give up?
Courtney Storer:
I really was passionate about trying this career. I have to say that I looked to other women in the industry. And I just channeled them as much as I could. I really knew that I had this leadership experience at UPS and Whole Foods. And I wanted to manage and had the potential to be a chef someday, but I just didn't have the technical skills. And so, what I would remind myself is time. Time. I read Gabrielle Hamilton's book while I was there.
Kerry Diamond:
Blood, Bones & Butter. Mm-hmm. Great book.
Courtney Storer:
And I tried to really reach out for the community of chefs that were in my culinary school to say like, "Should I keep doing this?" But I remember writing down, “You're bad until you're good.” I would have glimpses of that. I would time myself. Maybe my mise en place would be prepped faster. Or I would make a family meal that didn't suck. And I made a lot of them that sucked. And the cooks would be like, "I'm going to go get a sandwich because this is garbage." And I was like, "How can I make food all the time and not be able to perform for these other cooks?"
But to be honest, I didn't know how to cook pork belly at first. I didn't know how to do pork shoulder. Why is a flank steak different than a New York steak? And why do they cook differently? And all of these things that you develop with time that I might know now, I didn't know then. So when someone said, "Hey, use this leftover duck." I was like, "Oh, my gosh. Ah, curve ball." No internet to research because my phone didn't work.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you have the palate though? I think sometimes that raw material just has to be there.
Courtney Storer:
Palate is also developed. So I had my palate of food that I liked. And my friend, her name is Jamie Rutherford. She went on to work at Prune. She's an amazing chef. But she gave me advice because I was talking about palate with her, and I was like, "I don't know if it's that I don't know what I'm doing. Or I'm just not good at this." And she was like, "You're forgetting who you are and what you know. Start there. And it's going to help you enhance your palate."
Because if you go in trying to make different types of food that you might not know, you might get lost in the shuffle. You have to really stick with what you know first and kind of develop in that to test your palate. So for me, a good example is making a lasagna. I made lasagna all the time. But here I was in France, with some of the best cheeses and fresh tomatoes and basil from the garden, and I was just blown away. And I said, "Okay, start there. Elevate lasagna for family meal." And that was the first family meal I made. And the chef came up to me, and he's like, "There we go. Yeah, there we go."
Kerry Diamond:
That's great.
Courtney Storer:
You know, those little things.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you start to make enough money, at least, that you could go out and try things and eat in different restaurants?
Courtney Storer:
Yes. And Braden Perkins, the chef/owner of Verjus, and Laura [Adrian], they really took great care of me, especially after I proved myself. They started to really kind of take me under their wings. They were really generous with taking the whole entire team out for family dinners. And we would go to some of the best restaurants in Paris, like Septime. And actually, eat together and order these fancy tasting menus. It was such a treat. But the bonding of actually enjoying beautiful food from these amazing chefs was unforgettable. And the wine and the cheese was such an education all the time.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you wind up in LA?
Courtney Storer:
Chris [Storer], my brother. So after being in Paris, there was a big conversation about, am I going to go back to Chicago? Where am I going to go with this experience now? And I came to visit him. I had my backpack and my chef's knives. He's like, "What's the plan for you? Let's go out to some restaurants in LA. You can kind of see what's out here." And one of the restaurants he suggested was Trois Mec. And I knew of Chef Ludo [Lefebvre]. And I wanted to try the tasting menu that he was doing. And I loved it. I sat at the bar by myself. Chris got me a ticket because they were doing tickets at that time. And I was watching so intently all of the cooks and the chefs. And he was like, "Are you a food critic? What's your deal?" And I was like, "No, I'm actually a cook." And the rest is history. I staged there the next day. I didn't get the job. I was super bummed. But I also wasn't ready, I think.
Kerry Diamond:
How so?
Courtney Storer:
I was really nervous. I was still working on my confidence. One year in a kitchen doesn't make you a pro, I would say. I'm 10 or 12 years in kitchens and I still don't find myself to be a pro at all things at all. I think it comes down to confidence. Back then, I was really not sure, very unaware, leaning on a lot of cooks. Hey, should I put this in that? Can I use this? Whereas now, if someone told me to make a salad, I would be overwhelmed with ideas. Then, I was so rigid. I didn't know what to make. I was constantly thinking about the opinions of the other chefs. Are they going to think I'm good? Are they judging me? Is this enough to make me worthy of a spot on the line here?
I just had a lot riding on that. And so, I blew it, I think. I didn't do anything wrong, but I don't think I was someone who came in and was like a rock star. I was bummed. And the chef actually, his name's Doug Rankin. He is still a chef in LA. He connected me with Jonathan Whitener who was at Animal at the time. And I went in and actually got the job that same day. It was just the right fit. But I think because I staged at Trois Mec, it prepped me, and I was a little bit more calm, cool, and collected when I went to Animal.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell everybody what was special about Animal.
Courtney Storer:
So I actually got to eat at Animal before I worked there. So I had known how fantastic it was. But it was essentially Jon [Shook] and Vinny [Dotolo]'s first restaurant together after being caterers. And they had this really fun, ambitious approach to food. They are very good at making the simple complex, and the reverse, the complex simple. It's hard to explain, but I was really impressed at the level of acid and brightness in food. The play on pigtail or veal tongue and sweetbreads, all these different things. Animal's menu is a lot of different animal, but it's also not. It's also a Greek salad or whatever it might be. And I knew that at Verjus I was doing such fine dining food that this would really help me learn how to cook proteins, all different kinds of proteins, not just to cook them, but how to prep them.
Kerry Diamond:
How did you nail the stage? What was different versus the Trois Mec one?
Courtney Storer:
I really approached it like I had eight arms. I came in, and I was like, "There's going to be no downtime for me." If they don't have something for me to do, I'm going to take the garbage out. If you know someone isn't sweeping, I'm going to sweep. And I applied all those things from France that I had learned, filled that space. Clean the sink. The sink is dirty, take initiative. I was like, "Take initiative. Change the parchment paper in the walk-in. Observe, observe, but also contribute."
Kerry Diamond:
I love that you called it eight arms. So I'm going to call that “be the octopus.”
Courtney Storer:
Yes. Well, that's something I got from watching Rachael Ray. Back in college, I would watch her show. And I always loved how she would just look like a little octopus. She would just grab everything. And she would joke about that. She'd be like, "I grab everything I'm going to cook with that day in my arms." And I always thought about that in a kitchen. I was like, "If you're walking full hands in, full hands out. Sweep, sweep, sweep." I just did whatever I could. But I also worked to pay attention, to listen, not jump in too quickly, which I think at Trois Mec I kind of did. I was like, "What do you guys need? Oh, I wanted to do this." And at Animal I was just working as directed. And I think I came with a different mental attitude a little bit. And it went really, really well.
Kerry Diamond:
And you wound up staying with Jon and Vinny for a while, right?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, I did. I mean, I would always talk with Vinny about Italian food. We had a real connection about that. And family meal was a way that we would talk about it. And I knew that Jon and Vinny were building an Italian restaurant across the street. And it was my way of saying, "Hey, here's a little nudge. I make this food if you need me." But they didn't really bite. So I was like, "Oh, okay. This isn't really working." But I just kept making Italian food. And then, Vinny and I, we had this conversation about buttered carrots. I remember on the line one day, we were talking about things that our Italian families made, and…
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, tell us more about the buttered carrots.
Courtney Storer:
Just simplicity. My Italian grandmother, she would make the best, the most simple things so delicious. The carrots, she would just roast them in the oven with some salt, maybe olive oil. And then, finish them with butter and kind of caramelize them a little bit. And maybe do some fresh herbs. Maybe she might put dill, basil, parsley. It didn't matter. But it was just that simpleness of the technique of cooking a carrot, kind of like that Alice Waters approach, just making a good ingredient really yummy. So him and I talked about that. And I think there was a moment, maybe it was kind of serendipity at Animal, where I had worked my way all the way up on the line. I had learned so much from those cooks, but I kind of got to a place where I was having a little bit of friction.
And I was ready to go back to Chicago. I was feeling some tension in the team. And I was just like, "I'm ready to go." And Jon and Vinny were like, "No, no, no. You're not going anywhere. We have an opportunity. Let's bring you over to Jon & Vinny's." And I was like, "I know how to make pasta. I don't want to just be a pasta cook." And they were like, "No. We know that you're a leader. Let's test you out as a sous chef. And then, if you're ready, we would love to give you the CDC position." They had a chef in that spot already who didn't work out. And so, I kind of came into it with a lot to prove and stayed there for many years. I mean, almost seven years.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's take a break. And we'll be right back with today's guest. Today's show is also supported by Whole Foods Market, where you can find lots of Cherry Bombe's favorite female-forward food and drink brands, like White Moustache founded by Homa Dashtaki and her dad. White Moustache is old world yogurt, handmade in Red Hook, Brooklyn, and inspired by the founder's memories of life in Iran. White Moustache is hands down one of my favorite yogurts, because it's so creamy and decadent. If you think all yogurts taste the same, you have not tried White Moustache. I love all their flavors and highly recommend the sour cherry, which has sour cherry preserves at the bottom that you can swirl through the yogurt and enjoy.
White Moustache also has probiotic tonics made from whey which, as most of you know, is a byproduct of the yogurt making process and is sometimes poured down the drain. So not only are these tonics refreshing, they cut down on food waste. The White Moustache probiotic tonics come in flavors like passion fruit and pineapple. And I wish I had one right now. You can find White Moustache at select Whole Foods Market locations in the New York are or by visiting wholefoodsmarket.com. Part of Whole Foods mission is to feature local brands, so be sure to seek out what's local and special at the Whole Foods Market nearest you. Now, back to today's guest.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, so I have to ask. At what point did The Bear start to take shape? On my first viewing, I was like, this is really a love letter to the industry. And now, I'm so curious, was this a brother's love letter to his sister?
Courtney Storer:
Of course. I see the things in there that bring me a lot of joy and appreciation for our relationship and how far we've come to get where we are today. It's like a really beautiful thing. I also think Chris has had a real love for restaurants since he was a kid as well.
Kerry Diamond:
Did he work in restaurants?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, a little bit. And Chris Zucchero who owns Mr. Beef was Chris's best friend. And he was always around in the restaurants. And I think Chris tried the restaurant world a little bit, but more on the front of house end and maybe a little bit on the back house, but never pursued it. But I think there was always a real love. When I moved out here, he was my number one fan. He was coming into the restaurants every weekend, because I couldn't really see anybody. I had so many years where I was really, really busy and working these Saturday and Sunday breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner services. That's how we would connect is he would come in, and I'd be like, "I'm okay. I'm alive. I love you."
Kerry Diamond:
You make so many sacrifices when you work in a kitchen.
Courtney Storer:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Kerry Diamond:
All the weddings that you miss, the birthdays, all of it.
Courtney Storer:
Everything. But yeah, so I think in a lot of ways he could see that world. And me living with him for a couple years, I would work services and wake up in the morning with my coffee and just be like staring outside. And he's like, "Oh, you're sad. Are you okay? Is everything okay?" I'm like, "I'm exhausted. And I'm feeling frustrated." Or, "I hate being a girl sometimes in kitchens." And, "That sucked last night. This happened." And he's my springboard for a lot of it.
Kerry Diamond:
When did it really start to take shape? When did he start pitching it?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. Well, I think it was developed with FX from the jump and was kind of like a movie as Chris had written it. And it reads really well as a show too. So they kind of worked on it together. And as the writer's room started, that's when they brought me in, to kind of talk really about my perspective as a woman in kitchens and what that's like.
Kerry Diamond:
And when did he ask you to be the culinary producer?
Courtney Storer:
Well, it kind of just happened. This is the joke with my brother. When I came out, because I knew I was going to do some advising on the set and the food obviously. But when I got there, I just jumped right in. And so, I had worked with Ayo [Edebiri] a lot before we started shooting on just muscle movement and how I carry things and how I move in a space and what an expediter does and just telling her stories.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. And Ayo plays Sydney for those who've watched the show.
Courtney Storer:
She's amazing. When I got there, I was very comfortable with Ayo. So I could immediately be like, 'Hey, whoa. What's going on here? Hold on. Let's move this cutting board here." And Matty and I have a long history in the restaurant world, because we've known each other as buddies in restaurants. But working together, it was great because we could say, “Hold on.” And I might be like, "Hey, Matty. What about this?" And he would ask me and we could really approach the actors individually and give them some insight.
Kerry Diamond:
And let me just explain that's Matty Matheson.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. Yeah, he has several restaurants in Montreal right now. And he just opened one called Prime Seafood Palace. It's really beautiful.
Kerry Diamond:
I mean, if you had to give a job description, what did it ultimately mean to be the culinary producer on a TV show?
Courtney Storer:
A lot of it is food-centered. So it was starting with the food, making sure that everything looks realistic, that it's being prepared in a way that we would actually do in a restaurant. Is it being, not only prepared, but stored? We talked a lot about dry storage, about the walk-in. The culinary producer not only is food, but also the action of the chefs themselves. So, in the space, is the pastry section actually realistic? Do they move in that space? Would they actually label a dolly to, would they use that mixer or this mixer? So it's the little finite details to the big details.
It's also working closely with the writers, the directors, to make sure that things look, feel, sound accurate. One of the things I noticed was the use of fire. One thing that will actually give better response from the actors is if there's actual flame involved, safely. But I could notice that the actors, like if there was heat underneath the onions or the peppers, they would respond to it differently. And that's something that Chris was really passionate about, is making it look real but feel real, so that everybody could kind of get lost in that moment. So it's not just food styling. It's the overall picture of what this food process is.
Kerry Diamond:
And you were given a lot of leeway on set from what I've read. You were allowed to yell, "Cut."
Courtney Storer:
Oh, yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't know how often you use that power, but…
Courtney Storer:
That's probably just my brother being sweet. But yeah, I would yell, “Cut.” But also if Jeremy [Allen White], I mean, he was great. I mean, all the actors were like, "Hey, if this looks phony, stop us. We don't want to put anybody on blast. We want to make this thing good." So there would be times where I would nudge the director and be like, "Hey, can we stop? This is driving me nuts." Or like, "We would never do that." Or, "That would never really happen." The thing I really have to say about the actors is they were constantly learning every day. Each shot, every different thing that we did was building, just like I did as a chef. I could see them, oh, use the tongs. This is how we get time and temperature. This is how we move. This is how you season. They were picking it up.
Kerry Diamond:
You so captured the time and the space aspects of being in a restaurant. Were you aware of that as it was happening? I mean, I'm guessing a lot of that was in the editing as well. But how did you communicate that to your brother?
Courtney Storer:
We talked a lot about something you said earlier—missing weddings, missing special moments. Being able to really lose yourself in a kitchen is a coping mechanism for a lot of people. I know it definitely was for me. I would find that all that mattered was that clock in that kitchen. And I wouldn't be thinking about my personal life or my frustrations or my family stuff that was going on. I would just strictly go into the kitchen and that was all that mattered. That team, that clock, that 9:00, 11:00, 3:00, 6:00.
The different vibration that it brings into your, not even your heart rate, but your mental game. It felt like the closest thing to playing soccer for me is like getting ready for a game. And then, the team all goes for it. And then, at the end you're like, "Whew." It's like that adrenaline rush. It can be very addicting. But when you're doing a task that's timed, you can get into this mentality where you're just multitasking, you're going for it. And then, it's 3:00. You're totally involved in this world.
Kerry Diamond:
And let's talk about the emotional part of The Bear. So many of the fictional portrayals we've seen of kitchens and of chefs. It's the rock star chef. It's the shouty chef. The guy who's throwing plates and domineering in the kitchen. Carmy is a different kind of chef. We really haven't seen this kind of chef portrayed fictionally. Why did your brother and the team decide to take that route?
Courtney Storer:
It's because it's the humanness behind that chef. What makes that person be that way, really? What is it about these chefs that can show up and do this work every single day? Where does that come from? I always said in kitchens, kind of, it feels like the Broken Hearts Club. I've said that to cooks a lot, where I know someone's going through a tough time, and I've been there myself. I'm still in the life process of getting over a bunch of stuff that happened in my lifetime. And I can see it a lot in other cooks. And I would always say, "Hey, you're in the Broken Hearts Club for a reason. You're not alone." And addiction is a part of a lot of people's lives. And commonly in restaurants, whether it's a personal addiction or a family addiction.
And I think that's because of the pace of it. It's kind of this romanticized thing at some points and that it's dysfunctional in others. And there's a common ground that you can step out of one dysfunctional reality into another one. Not to say all restaurants are dysfunctional, but there are parts of it that feel that way often. I think Carmy's character exemplifies that he's just been able to keep going and keep going, and then he's human and it caught up with him. I talk to so many chefs in my universe where that's the case as well. You give it your all, you're working six or seven days a week, really long hours. You're on your feet. You go home. Your refrigerator's empty. You stay up too late. You smoke cigarettes. I've done all the things. And then, you do it all again the next day.
But there's an emptiness sometimes that needs to be addressed. I relate to that so much in my own life, being the one that everybody's looking at all day for assistance, guidance. Sometimes if you're not actively aware of your own self and taking care of your own self, you get lost and you kind of drown. Physically, sometimes your body will react anxiety-wise. So it's like, you have to answer to that. My heart would be racing so much. I'm like, it's coffee. And I learned it wasn't coffee. It was anxiety. It was a culmination of things. And so, I think Carmy kind of shows that, that he can't escape it anymore.
Kerry Diamond:
The anxiety plus the adrenaline; it's a complex mix in those kitchens.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
What did you think the industry reaction would be?
Courtney Storer:
I was really nervous, because I didn't want people to feel attacked or that we were exploiting this world to be advantageous. I wanted there to be some sort of appreciation for all of the people in kitchens. It's not always about the chef. That's what we wanted to really show. And I love my brother and Joanna Calo, who directed and wrote as well. She was very good about being like, “It's all of the people that process work.” And I wanted everyone from a porter/dishwasher to a busser, line cook, garde manger cook to the chef to feel seen a little bit in the show. That was really important, so that people could connect. And I'm glad that they did. And also, to see the connection that they make with different specific characters really meant a lot. But I was nervous.
Kerry Diamond:
I can imagine you are. The casting is one of the reasons I'm so excited for... I mean, I'm so excited for season two for so many reasons. But I'm dying to know the backstory of all these characters. I mean, Tina and Sydney, and everybody. I mean such rich characters. And even though we got little slices of their lives in season one, I can't wait for more of the backstory in season two. So the industry reaction. The industry reaction has been unbelievable. They love the show. I mean, there are very few things that the industry can kind of agree on. And I feel like this is one of them. But you know this. One of the first things everybody says is the PTSD. I don't know. Did you expect everyone to be like, "Oh, my God. The PTSD."
Courtney Storer:
Yeah, I did, because I had it on set. I had to take a lot of walks around the block myself. It's so intense. And I was worried about that. With Chris, I'm like, "Oof, chefs are going to have a really strong response to this, because it feels really familiar." Especially episode seven.
Kerry Diamond:
I was just going to say. We have to have a separate conversation about episode seven, but go ahead.
Courtney Storer:
We do episode seven. I've had that experience way too many times to count. And especially in this day and age with the tablets and the DoorDash and all the different systems for delivery that are now integrated into restaurants. It's wild. And I was just blown away watching, because they did that all in one take.
Kerry Diamond:
And I didn't know that when I watched it.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
How the heck did you all pull that off in one take? What was it like on set that day?
Courtney Storer:
It was really anxious. That day was hard, because it's so volatile. So everyone was kind of reeling and in their own process. Each different actor was really feeling a lot of different things. And you really see it, the way, the anger, the volatility, the swearing at each other. Just the way that the ugly kind of comes out to everybody. There's not like a hero in that scene. You're not looking at Sydney like, "Good job. You kept your composure." Maybe even Tina's character, how she just keeps going. She's like, "Okay, this is chaos, but I'm just working here." That happens all the time. And it showed kind of how people can be having a full flip out. Some people are just going about it. Some people are quitting. It's happened to me. I've seen that.
Kerry Diamond:
We keep talking about The Bear forever—we are going to run out of time. I do want to ask you about Raising Foodies because…
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
... you do this incredible program. I don't know anything about it. And I would love to know some more. What is Raising Foodies and how did you get involved?
Courtney Storer:
My friend Khatira [Brown] started Raising Foodies. It actually was a program with Alliance of Moms for a while. Khatira is kind of branched into doing a different one. It might be renamed into this new thing. But we work with St. Anne's in Los Angeles and some women in the foster care system that have little ones that they obviously care for that have a really tight budget. It's kind of an intergenerational cycle of trauma and abuse. And I was really drawn to St. Anne's because of the magical women I've met there while teaching them how to cook.
I've been lucky enough to be the chef of that program and take the reins a little bit on the culinary aspect and work with the women to kind of teach them the basics for what they can afford, how to cook quick and nutritious meals for their families and themselves. Food for me is that one thing that can snap me out of that depressive mood. And that is so relatable. And I think the women and I, and Khatira especially, and Jen [Prakash], who does the program with us, that's one thing that we all find in common is, it just becomes like a family that we're all cooking together while learning a few tricks. But it's been amazing. It's been hard in the pandemic, because of Zoom and things like that. But hopefully, we'll be able to get back going now, going into the fall.
Kerry Diamond:
How can folks support that program, Courtney?
Courtney Storer:
By reaching out to St Anne's directly. They have fundraising. You're able to donate. And donating to St. Anne's allows for more programming, where we can bring in more food and actually do the classes more often and make them more accessible to more of the women who live there.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll share more information in the show notes for those who might want to get involved.
Courtney Storer:
Amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
Or donate. I mean, there's nothing more important than knowing how to cook for yourself and to take care of…
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
... the people you're responsible for.
Courtney Storer:
For sure.
Kerry Diamond:
It's an important skill.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And that's amazing that you're doing that. So thank you.
Courtney Storer:
Of course.
Kerry Diamond:
Courtney, tell me. How do you take care of yourself mentally, physically?
Courtney Storer:
My life has slowed down a little bit. I left Jon & Vinny's about two years ago. And I can't believe it's been two years, but I've been private cheffing and catering. I able to make some hours for myself where I live a lifestyle that I'm not working 14 hours a day, which helped me a lot. Now, I am in therapy, which helps, and I strongly recommend. But I also love to now read cookbooks and just read in general.
That's been a huge self-care for me, especially in this day and age of all the technology we have access to. I've found it really, really rejuvenating to go into old cookbooks. And that feels like self-care to me, because I'm not cooking. I'm just reading other people's genius ideas. And it gives me a lot of passion and inspiration. And I also take a lot of walks with my dog. I have a dog. My girlfriend and I have a dog. And it's…
Kerry Diamond:
What's your dog's name?
Courtney Storer:
His name's Bear.
Kerry Diamond:
No, stop.
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. Surprise!
Kerry Diamond:
I loved the cookbook scenes in The Bear. And I would stop my computer and take screen grabs of them and then try to see what the books were. In one of the very first scenes, I just thought it was so great that Julia Child's Mastering the Art of French Cooking was…
Courtney Storer:
Of course.
Kerry Diamond:
... on Carmy's desk, which I guess, that was his brother's cookbook. Or maybe Carmy brought it, who knows. And then, the pile in Carmy's apartment. Did you put that cookbook pile together?
Courtney Storer:
Yeah. I mean, I got to give that to this guy, Eric, from set deck. He really did his research. And he was like, "What do you think?" I was like, "Two thumbs up." I mean, we moved a few of them. But I think that's something that Chris had talked about is that Carmy and that connection to the women in his life. Even if it's dysfunctional, he writes down that chicken piccata that his mom used to make him. These influences that have really played a big part in his life might be a little bit unexpected. But I think for a lot of chefs, that's where we draw from. And definitely for me, I mean, Julia Child changed my life. I mean, all public television chefs did really, like Lidia Bastianich, and many, many more.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us some of the cookbooks, Courtney, that are on the top of your pile.
Courtney Storer:
Oh, wow. I love Marcella Hazan. She's amazing. And I think what I always find, there's this cookbook by Romeo Salta, it's like an Essentials of Italian Cooking kind of vibe. But I would say I really seek out the old nostalgic grandmother cookbooks. There's a deli out here in Los Angeles, and the woman who opened it sold all her cookbooks. And I just bought so many of them. And I've just been flipping through. I really find a lot of inspiration from regional cookbooks that are old, that actually have maps that you can understand the concept of why the food comes from where it comes from, because I can adapt that.
Kerry Diamond:
That's great. Well, Courtney, thank you so much. I'm so blown away by you. And I just have to thank you for this gift you and your brother and the whole cast and crew have given the food world.
Courtney Storer:
It means a lot to Chris and I, and Joanna and everybody, that everybody is digging it. So thanks so much for the support.
Kerry Diamond:
Aw, absolutely.
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Courtney Storer for joining me. If you'd like to keep up with Courtney, give her a follow on Instagram @courtney_storer. And if you haven't had a chance to watch The Bear yet, head on over to Hulu. If you enjoyed today's podcast, check out our past interviews with other food stylists like Christine Tobin from HBO Max's Julia and Susan Spungen from Julie & Julia, wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you to Wild Planet and Whole Foods Market for supporting today's show. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of Cherry Bombe Magazine. Sign up for our newsletter at cherrybombe.com. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Thank you Joseph Hazan, studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. And thank you to our assistant producer, Jenna Sadhu. And thanks to you for listening. You are the bombe.