Odette Olavarri Transcript
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Hi, everyone. This is Abena Anim-Somuah, the host of The Future Of Food Is You, and we have a special encore episode for you today with Odette Olavarri, baker and owner of Odette, a boulangerie-style space in Mexico City. It's our number-one episode of the year so far. I spend a lot of time in Mexico City and Odette's treats are my favorite snacks, especially post-tennis. Enjoy, and I'll be back very soon.
Hi, everyone. You're listening to The Future Of Food Is You, a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Abena Anim-Somuah, and each week I talk to emerging talents in the food world and they share what they're up to as well as their dreams and predictions for what's ahead. As for me, I'm the founder of The Eden Place, a community that's all about gathering people intentionally around food. I love this new generation of chefs, bakers, and creatives making their way in the world to food, drink, media, and tech. I usually record The Future Of Food Is You in New York City, but I'm currently in Mexico City for today's recording, as is our guest, Odette Olavarri.
Odette is the founder and CEO of Odette, a bakery in Mexico City's residential neighborhood, Lomas de Chapultepec. Odette and I chat about why she opened her own bakery, the state of cuisine and baked goods in Mexico City, and why so many people in food are obsessed with her city these days. I'm a huge fan of Odette's croissants, kouign-amanns, and signature jams, so I'm excited to learn more about her and her baked goods. Odette is also set to open her second location in the bustling neighborhood of Condesa, so we'll talk about that as well.
Thank you to Kerrygold for supporting The Future Of Food Is You. Kerrygold is the iconic Irish brand, famous for its rich butter and cheese made in Ireland with milk from grass-fed cows. Let's talk butter first. There's a Kerrygold butter for all of you out there from soft and spreadable butter in a tub to sticks of salted or unsalted, a perfect measurement option for foolproof cooking. There's a Kerrygold butter blended with olive oil which is about to become your pantry essential. My go-to is the traditional block of Kerrygold unsalted butter foils, perfect for baking because of that higher butterfat content and because I can control the amount of salt in the specific recipe. Then there's Kerrygold cheese. The options go way beyond their classic Irish cheddar. There's Kerrygold Blarney cheese which is a gouda style, Kerrygold Dubliner, sweet and nutty with a bite similar to aged Parmesan, Kerrygold Skellig, a tangy take on cheddar, and the rich and delicious Karrygold Cashel Blue Farmhouse cheese. For the best cheese board, just accompany these with some grapes, your favorite crackers, and some funky jams for contrasting vibes. You're all set. If you haven't tried Kerrygold yet, don't delay. The future is now. Look for their butter and cheese at your favorite supermarket, specialty grocery store, or cheese shop. Visit kerrygoldusa.com for recipes and product information.
Now, let's check in with today's guest. Odette, it's so lovely to have you on the podcast. You're our first international guest.
Odette Olavarri:
Amazing, Abena. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh my gosh, of course. Let's get started. You are born and raised in Mexico City. Can you tell us a little bit about your family and how you shared food together with them?
Odette Olavarri:
Well, I was born in a family obsessed with food. That's the only thing we love to talk about. My family is always commenting if there's not enough salt on a plate, the salad doesn't have enough dressing. I was always into the kitchen with my parents. My parents dedicated themselves to finance so not of the culinary world, but very connected to food. I had a great grandmother that was also a chef, didn't have any business but cooked amazing and dedicated her whole life to cooking. When she died, my grandfather actually printed her book of recipes which I have at home.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's amazing.
Odette Olavarri:
Yes, we still cook some things from her book and some of them I definitely have inspiration into the bakery.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You also mentioned that your family had a farm where you would retreat on the weekends. There was produce, there was animals around. How did that help you develop your love and relationship to food?
Odette Olavarri:
This farm, my grandparents started it. Literally, they started growing the first tree that was there because it was a pretty dry land. With a lot of years and work, they started now a garden full of trees, all types of fruits, vegetables, all types of teas, camomile, mint, whatever you can imagine, all types of lettuces, different variety of tomatoes, carrots, all types of different stuff.
Actually, my grandfather was addicted of buying different seeds and trying them. As I said, it was a pretty dry land, so we had to try a lot of vegetables, but we were very connected to the land. I remember all Sundays before coming back to the city, we would all go and pick the vegetables for the week. So we were very connected. Actually, one of the desserts that are most sold on the bakery is Mont Blanc, which is a Christmasy dessert and it's made out of meringue and chestnut puree. And I remember doing in the ranch chestnut purees because we had a lot of chestnut trees that my grandfather brought the seed from France. We had a lot of cows and we would milk the cows. We would make a very common cheese that is called panela. So every weekend we would wake up 5:00 a.m. all of my cousins go milk the cows and make panelas.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When did your particular love of baking start?
Odette Olavarri:
It was a life process but I have a specific memory which is really funny. When I was eight years old, we went to live to the U.S. for two years. My mother bought us, me and my sister, a book of cupcakes, decorating cupcakes, and there was amazing ideas and there was one specifically which was my specialty that I love to do, which was owl cupcakes. We would separate the Oreos and put them as eyes of the owl and I started selling them and they got very popular in school. So I got super into the kitchen. Cupcakes was my-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Specialty.
Odette Olavarri:
... specialty at the moment, and that's how I started with the idea of giving cooking classes to little girls. There was a point where I was 14 years old, I had two groups of girls.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Where did you find these girls?
Odette Olavarri:
School.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, okay.
Odette Olavarri:
Like cousins, daughters of my mom's friends. I remember one time a mom brought me her kid with diapers literally, to take care of the kids. So it was very small age. My mom was so nervous that I was giving these cooking classes at that age. I couldn't even drive in case of an accident. So my mom was always in the kitchen when I was giving the classes and I got so mad at her because I was like, "Mom, I'm the teacher right now." So that's how I think my passion started. All my childhood I saw it as a hobby because my parents were in the finance world, so for me working was being on a computer.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
So you had the expectation that you'd be in finance or was that set from an early age or-
Odette Olavarri:
Always. I always thought that I was going to end up in a bank. I've always loved numbers. That was my favorite class in school. And actually I think that is something that has helped me a lot in the bakery. Yes, cooking was not an option for school.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
But I mean, despite your parents wanting you to go into finance, you ended up going to, I guess, probably the most prominent culinary school in Paris, at Le Cordon Bleu, and you took classes there. What was that experience like?
Odette Olavarri:
The course was amazing. I had an amazing experience, and the best part of being in the Cordon Bleu in Paris is that you go in the afternoons and actually try all the desserts that you're cooking in school. So it's a great combination. I remember every afternoon going with all of my friends to have our tea times and we would eat all the eclairs, all the raspberry tarts I could see. Those were my favorites. That was a great combination. I was learning to make the desserts that I saw on the streets.
The school was very hard obviously, very strict as all of the cooking schools are, but I actually loved it. I remember the last day that I went out of the school and I called my mom back in Mexico and I couldn't stop crying. Literally, I couldn't. I was like, "I'm never going to be as happy as I was these six months." And my mom was like, "Why are you studying finance? Do you see yourself in a bank?" And I was like, "No, not at all but I have to study that. And after I'll see what I can do with the numbers." My mom was like, "No, it's the other way around." So it was my mom on that call that made me change. And I remember coming back from that last day of Cordon Bleu and googling all these cooking schools in Mexico and how I could start this career and be successful.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
When you were in Paris, what were some of the places that you were going to for inspiration? I mean there's no better place to learn patisserie, there's no better place to get inspired. So what were the spots that you were frequenting?
Odette Olavarri:
Totally. Well, I had some specific ones but I would like to say here that I would not like to mention any popular ones because I thought that every boulangerie from every corner had the best croissant, palmier my favorite. I think, by the way, the best combination in the world is butter and sugar. So all the palmiers, Kouign-amann were my favorites, and I would buy them on every corner. I mean you don't have to be very specific in Paris, I think.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah. That's a beautiful way of putting it. So you come back to Mexico City. You decide to, I guess, sow your oats in restaurants. Can you tell us a little about your experience working at a restaurant in your local neighborhood?
Odette Olavarri:
Yes. I come back from France and I decide to go to work in a kitchen. So I come in to work to Bacait, which is in my neighborhood, a very good restaurant, very traditional European more focused, and that's where the chef gives me the opportunity to go into every area. So I was in the fish section, the meat, the cold, everything. And that's how I discovered what a real kitchen was because, well, when you get in the kitchen and you start actually sweating and you start actually cutting your fingers and hearing people scream all day long and you get this vibe, it's one of the most amazing experiences I've had.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's like a rush.
Odette Olavarri:
It's like a rush every day. And you end up at 1:00 a.m. and you wake up early every day. I remember one time that my filipina was fully wet. You could see through how much because the kitchens get hot and people screaming. I actually miss it because in the bakeries you don't have that stress because there is no service and you don't have guests outside waiting. So I miss that part, but that's where I actually discovered how to really cut, because I came back from the Cordon Bleu and I knew how to cut an onion, but in the restaurant that's not how you cut the onion. It's the opposite way. You start from another side. So I had no idea how to cook, and this is where I really learned to cook in big quantities which is a completely different career.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, I mean cooking at scale is different because you have to incorporate flavors and elements in so many other ways. So that's awesome that you were able to get that experience. So while you were going to cooking school, working at a restaurant, who were some of the inspirations or people that you looked up to during your journey?
Odette Olavarri:
Well, I had my list of chefs that I wanted to work with. Before opening this business, I had literally a list on my phone and I was like, "I'm going to work this day with Eduardo Vero. I want to work with..." Massimo Bottura was on my list. Dominique Crenn.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
All the best, yeah.
Odette Olavarri:
All these famous chefs that it's the dream for everyone that starts in the industry. But at the end, I think my inspiration, the push for starting this business was in my home. Coming back and practicing and my parents eating these desserts and being like, "No, but add a little more strawberry. I think this is too salty." So that's what really motivated me, and I think I would answer that question that my parents have been the motor to start this business.
My mom is a very traditional finance mind, so that has always helped me. She always says, "Do not grow until you're saturated." So I'm like, "I want to buy this new machine that does this in the kitchen and it costs this but it's going to be worth it." And my mom's like, "No, you can still work with this when you have the old one." She has more the traditional mind. My dad, though, is an extremely adventurous man and I remember when I was going to rent my first kitchen, I didn't have enough income to rent that space, and my dad was like, "Go and rent it." And I was like, "How am I going to sign a contract if I don't have the income?" My dad's like, "That's how it works." So that's the two voices that have pushed me the most and inspired me too.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, let's talk about the bakery. You started off baking at home. You had an Instagram business, you had lines outside your apartment. Your mom even had to build a door so that you could fit the cakes through your garage.
Odette Olavarri:
Yes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
What recipes did you start with when you decided to open online?
Odette Olavarri:
All of my bakery is focused on French pastries, most of all. But I do make my own hand in there. So when I started, I think my two most famous are the ones that are still most famous right now which is really funny, which is a pistachio and raspberry cake which is amazing. It has a base of meringue full of pistachio, no flour at all, and with cream and acidity from the strawberry, it's amazing. And then I have a praline cake, which has two layers of different chocolates, and a hazelnut base, crunchy one. So these were the two most sold ones.
But the day that the lines were like booming was when I first did the panes de muerto with fillings inside, because panes de muerto are a really common bread in Mexico, but when I started in my house, the fillings inside was something crazy. So I think all these things that I saw that had fillings in working in Paris and coming back to Mexico, that we don't have a lot of pastry that are filled with cream, and making that combination I think was what caught most attention and made people without me having a shop, taking care of booking their pastries two days ahead, which was what I asked for people to do.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, you had the pre-orders. I mean that's very smart and, again, it's probably efficient too. You know what to expect. I'm really curious how did you start with just friends and family to having lines outside of your home?
Odette Olavarri:
A step behind those lines in my house, there was an important, really important call, which was really funny. At 8:00 p.m. I receive a call of one of my mom's friends, and she told me Mr. Chow was opening in Mexico, and the next day, Mr. Chow was coming to Mexico and was trying all these desserts and had to choose which one was going to be sold, but the restaurant was opening in two days.
So when I received the call, I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, you don't get it. I'm baking on my mom's oven. This is not a real business.: I was still ending up my studies in Cordon Bleu at the same time, and she was like, "No, no, no. I know you're not going to sell to a restaurant. I know you can't but, please, I have to fill these possibilities for Mr. Chow and I have to fill up a table basically of desserts for tomorrow so please help me." So it was 8:00 p.m. and I was like, "Really? I have to go to school tomorrow." Well, so I woke up my mom and my sister, and I was like, "Can you guys please help me?" And we cooked there until 2:00 a.m.-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Odette Olavarri:
... making desserts like everything-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For Mr. Chow.
Odette Olavarri:
For Mr. Chow, everything that I've learned from school, making pieces of one recipe with another one, my mom and my sister helping. So we cooked there until 2:00 a.m. It was really funny because before going to sleep, 2:00 a.m. my sister says, "No, these cookies are the best." And I was like, “that would look terrible.”. There were some cookies in my house that I used to bake a lot, and she was like, "Make a cake out of cookies." So I take the chocolate cookie, I put some chocolate mousse that was in my house refrigerator. I put it on top and, obviously, it looked horrible. Imagine a cookie with mousse on top. So I was like, "No, this looks horrible." And we had a huge piece of chocolate, and I don't know, that was thinner than normal, and I cut the square and I just put it on top and I had some glitter. So I put the glitter on top. I was like, "This is horrible." And my sister's like, "Just put it one more."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's 2:00 a.m. You're not thinking.
Odette Olavarri:
It's 2:00 a.m. like one more. So I ended up handing eight cakes and I received this call and she's like, "You're not going to believe it, but Mr. Chow chose only one dessert and-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
From your home bakery.
Odette Olavarri:
... and it was the cookie chocolate mousse that I was so ashamed to send but my sister was like, "Just send it." So my sister always tells me I owe her a big percentage of my company. So that's how I started selling to restaurants, and that's how the business started growing in my house. Until that point, I had the full ... My parents couldn't get the cars in because the garage was full of these Costco tables that I bought full of desserts. And we were, by that time, four employees cooking all the time, handing out desserts through the door.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow. That's amazing. You actually studied in Paris. You came back and then you finished your studies at the Cordon Bleu in Mexico City. What was it like to come back again and wrap it up and have a second stint at culinary school?
Odette Olavarri:
So I love the combination, and actually all the people that go study to Cordon Bleu, I tell them to get this opportunity because there's more than 20 places where you can do Cordon Bleu, I think. And they give you opportunity to start wherever you want. So I think it makes a great cherry on top to have two places because you have two personality of chefs. I had some Mexican chefs teaching me. I had some French chefs teaching me. So I think that's a great combination and you see two worlds because kitchens are worlds in every country.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Absolutely. And also just the difference is Mexico is much more natural ingredients, more homegrown, more seasonally oriented, whereas the French is much more lush and rich. It's all butter and sugar and all the cheeses you can imagine.
Odette Olavarri:
Totally.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Let's go back to baking. You are out of your mom and dad's place. You've grown up, you have your own production kitchen, but what's really special about your first location is that it's on this really cute corner. It's probably the most beautiful thing. I've been to a lot of bakeries, but I just enjoy how quaint it is. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got that first space?
Odette Olavarri:
Yeah, so it's a really funny story because it was the family pharmacy since I was born, and my grandmother's, I think, too like a 40-year-old pharmacy. It was the neighborhood pharmacy and it happened to have an amazing tree outside. When I decided I wanted my own bakery, because the business started selling to restaurants and there was a point where I was like, "No, I want my own shop. I want my own place with my name." I decided I wanted a small space, I mean not that small, but I wanted a small space, and I fell in love with this tree. So my mom, being a businesswoman, helped me to get it. It took us one year to convince the pharmacy owners to give me a little space.
So we would come in with a meter and start taking measures, and I would do my drawings and the owners of the pharmacy were like, "Get out of my place," and I was inside with my meter and my mom dreaming, "See, the oven's going to be here," because we were like, "This pharmacy is huge. They can give me half the space. They're going to sell the same."
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, they don't need that storage room.
Odette Olavarri:
All the neighborhood knows this pharmacy. Instead of having 12,000 shampoo, have 6,000. So I was like, "Let's cut a little piece." And it took us one year. We finally convinced them. The only part that they wanted to give was 30 meters, square meters, so it was minimum.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow, that's like a closet,
Odette Olavarri:
Literally, it's like a closet. So I remember my first call that I called the architect. I knew perfectly which architect I wanted to make the shop, and I called him and I'm like, "Well, I got this shop. I'm so excited. I want you to do the bakery. The only thing is that it's 30 meters and I have one condition. I want to bake inside. I don't want this place to be"-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
A display case.
Odette Olavarri:
... "a display case. I want to bake in here. I want an oven. I want a fermenting room." And he was like, "No, you're crazy. Well, bring me the map. Bring me all the list of equipment you need." And the first meeting he told me, "Come on. Seriously, this is impossible. It's going to be a mess." And I was like, "No, let's figure it out." Right now, what I love the most about this corner is that when you come in, you feel you're inside a kitchen because-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Definitely.
Odette Olavarri:
... you get received in this little island like in a house kitchen, and the oven is behind the cashier. We have now all the baking at night and in very early morning because it gets kind of really hot in there, but the smell is there, and I feel it's something really important in baking. When the baked goods are made on another space and traveled, I feel your soul knows.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, it doesn't hit the same. Yeah, I feel that. I feel that.
Odette Olavarri:
So that's my only rule that I've had in the bakery, and I'm bringing that rule to the second.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, yeah. That's so exciting. I mean, you are opening a second location in Condesa, which is probably one of the most popular neighborhoods in the city. Tell us more about that.
Odette Olavarri:
Yes, so I'm really excited because the first location is a neighborhood, very traditional neighborhood, but it's not where all the people, foreigners are coming. It's hard to get people out of Mexico to know the pastry. So I'm really excited about this new location. Condesa and Roma are obviously booming right now. It's a very culinary centered location, so I'm super excited.
People right there love coffee. So we're buying this big machine and hiring these amazing baristas. So we're very excited. We're focusing a lot on that. We're going to have some small baguettes and sandwiches which we don't have in this location. My dream is coming true. Now we have a little production kitchen that is open to public. You're going to be buying your croissant and you're going to see in the back how they're making them. So I'm very excited about that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
No, that's the best. It's like when you go to the el moro here, and you see the little window that they have, you get to watch the magic happen. Well, we haven't talked a lot about the menu, but tell us about the menu and what people can expect to find.
Odette Olavarri:
So, first of all, I was very intense with the architect, once again same architect, that I wanted when you came in, you were going to see this lineup of trays. I like my baked goods to be on trays, cooking trays. You come in and see all these Kouign-amanns, croissants, walnut croissants. The most famous one is a Ferrero glazed croissant that is filled with chocolate ganache.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
My mouth is watering as we speak.
Odette Olavarri:
Yes, we have these almond croissants which are my favorites. We always have a seasonal baked good which is every month changing. So now it's a baklava roll, and then you come to the centerpiece and it's all the cakes. So in Condesa, we have the opportunity because we have more space that we're going to do also individual size cakes so people can try the cakes without having to buy the whole thing. We're going to have also these sandwiches, just fresh baguettes, very simple sandwiches to go or to eat right there.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I'm so excited to check it out. How does it feel being a neighborhood bakery right now? So if you go to Lomas de Chapultepec, it's very residential. It's mostly houses, mostly families. It's a little bit different from more of the central parts of the city. But how do you think the bakery has brought the neighborhood together?
Odette Olavarri:
When I first started this bakery, the place where I was located was pretty empty. And I think in the three years, two more restaurants, one my sister is actually, a fresh pasta-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's amazing.
Odette Olavarri:
Yes, it's a fresh pasta restaurant opened next to me and a sushi restaurant, like some restaurants opened on the same square. We have brought people together and if you go on a Saturday or on a Sunday, literally there's lines on every restaurant and the bakery. So it's amazing how we brought together people in this little space that not a lot of people knew. On my free time, literally, if I have a day that I have some free hours, my favorite activity is to go and do the cashier. That's my favorite and say hi. And I know a lot of people that go to the bakery. So I have all this gossip and I have an amazing time, and I think that's an important part of the bakeries. You have to bring people together.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Bakeries are our next best community spaces.
Odette Olavarri:
Totally.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, you mentioned that your sister also has a restaurant a few doors down. I mean is this the sister that told you to put glitter on those chocolate mousse cookies?
Odette Olavarri:
Yes. This is my sister, Lorea, my inspiration. She actually, really funny, studied fashion design. She's super stylish.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Wow.
Odette Olavarri:
But ended up being a chef, and now she has two restaurants. So she opened next to me a fresh pasta restaurant, and now she opened a new one in Polanco, which is amazing, a French bistro.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
I can't wait to check it out. Do you guys go to each other for business advice, food advice?
Odette Olavarri:
Totally. Actually, it was really funny when she opened her restaurant, I was an investor. We have always had an amazing relationship. On the third day, I was crying, calling my mom that I was so mad at Lorea, and she was calling my mom that she was really mad at me. My mom sat us and was like, "You guys have to solve your problems. This is not okay. This is the first time that I hear you fighting. This is not okay." So we took the smart decision, I think. I sold my part and she bought it. Now we're more like psychologists. We're mutual psychologists.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You're therapizing with each other.
Odette Olavarri:
Totally. So we call each other every day, "This is happening. What should I do? This is so stressful." Or, "I'm so happy. Look at this new product I'm taking pictures of." We're more partners like that.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Well, I want to talk a little bit about the memories involved in starting a bakery. There obviously have been some good days and some bad days. What have been some of the most memorable things that you've had happen in the three years since you've opened Odette?
Odette Olavarri:
So I think my most amazing memory is one time it was pan de muerto season again.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And that's in October?
Odette Olavarri:
October. We already had the shop, and it's this specific day that everyone wants to get it. It's the whole country buying the same product. All the bakeries are going crazy. We had all these orders and we were super organized and everything, but I received a call from the manager on the shop at 7:00 a.m. "You have to come." And I'm like, "What? What's wrong?" She's like, "You just have to come." So I arrive and I park in front, and there were two blocks of line of people waiting and I-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
For their pan de muerto?
Odette Olavarri:
For their pan de muertos. And I literally park in front and start crying. I was like, "What? This is my place?" I couldn't believe it. I didn't even want to call anyone. I was just crying. So I think that was the most amazing memory. The worst memory I've had was one horrible day. We have two very important seasonal products. So it's pan de muerto and Rosca de Reyes. Rosca de Reyes is-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's the king's cake, right?
Odette Olavarri:
The king's cake in January, and the fifth and the sixth, everyone wants the Rosca de Reyes. So it's the same problem. And I already had all these orders and we were super organized. The team was super nervous but we had it all under control. The night shift called me at 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. and they were like, "We just baked the first hundred Rosca de Reyes, and they all punched down when they came out"-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, they deflated.
Odette Olavarri:
They deflated. When they came out of the oven, literally they punched. I started making these weird 2:00 a.m. calls to my chef friends. Two of them answered, and I was like, "What do you think can it be? Tomorrow I have to deliver all these orders already paid." So I'm like, "No, I want to cry." And they started giving me all these ideas and, little by little ... but I remember my hands were shaking when I was moving the temperature of the oven. I was just shaking. It was horrible. And people would say, "Well, it's just Rosca de Reyes," and it's like, no, when you have customers that made their orders three days before, it feels worse than being a bank guide for someone. It feels horrible. You feel a lot of pressure.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
It's good and bad in that you have a high standard of excellence, but you also want to make sure that you're serving the best thing to your customers. It seems like you love the business. You love numbers. So obviously the financing, which is a hard part for a lot of bakers, you've enjoyed. But what is some of the business that you don't enjoy? I'm always curious to ask people that.
Odette Olavarri:
There's a very horrible part that it's understanding all these tax payments, accounting, but more like to the government tax, because the numbers I like, that's okay, but understanding employee benefits and understanding all these rules and laws and taxes and all this dark side about human relationships and just trusting, it's horrible. You feel you always have to approve every sale and where these taxes come from and all of these things that it's very unhuman when you have a business, but you have to do it. Signing contracts, making contracts, all of that part, I think it's really stressful and hard when you're not a lawyer-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Totally.
Odette Olavarri:
... or an accountant.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
You have hired 40 people in three years. How did you think a lot about your hiring philosophy and helping to grow your team?
Odette Olavarri:
I've read some books because I think this part is really hard, but I had never wanted to outsource this part. I love to do the interviews and hire, because it's our own team and who I bring in has a lot of responsibility with the other people that I have working. So all of these interviews, I try to focus more on the word "kind". More than looking at the CV, like some people have told me, "Wow, this is so weird. You didn't even read my CV." And I'm like, "Yes, no, that's okay." I like to have a chat trying to get to know them, because I think you have to have a specific personality focus to build a culture. And when you find that into someone and you're like, "Okay, this person I think can blend into my team," I think that is the most sacred part of a business, finding the right people.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's awesome. Where do you hope to see Odette in the next five years?
Odette Olavarri:
Well, I think my vision more than growing and having more spots, I would never like to have a franchise, for example, to be a franchise, I would not like that because I think I would lose my motor, my inspiration.
So I think what I would love is like right now I come into the cooking center, the production kitchen, and I listen to all these laughs and we're all creating the seasonal product. So we gather on the table and we all try the product. I know everyone's name. Making this team, I think it's the most amazing for me and for everyone. So I think the future of businesses have to be small center, more personal and more like building small families more than working on a company. So I think that would be my dream in five years, coming to the production kitchen, know everyone and have a specific project with everyone. Yeah, that would be my dream.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's beautiful. It's like you want to keep it more homegrown as opposed to 20 locations all over Mexico.
Odette Olavarri:
Totally.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Are there people, celebrities, inspiration, role models that you want to try Odette's goodies?
Odette Olavarri:
I have my idols but I think one specific person that I would love, which I don't know her actually, but Dominique Crenn.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Oh, she's a queen. She's a queen.
Odette Olavarri:
I follow her on Instagram and I want to be her friend. I want to take her to my bakery and-
Abena Anim-Somuah:
She's been on the Cherry Bombe podcast. Yeah.
Odette Olavarri:
Really? I didn't know that. I'm going to listen to her podcast, but I just follow her on Instagram, and she's such an inspiration and all her amazing projects. She's totally an inspiration for me, so I would love for her to come at one point.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, for sure. That's amazing. Well, let's talk more about Mexico City. Obviously, it's been incredible in the last, I would say, five to six years, just how much it's become a global culinary destination. How have you found community with other female bakers and other young food entrepreneurs who are in the city?
Odette Olavarri:
Yes. I have a lot of chefs and baker friends. In general, I don't want to put words into people but, in general, I think there's excitement on our side to see how our industry is booming, and we are so lucky to be living in the country in the moment now where all of this is booming. So I actually have a tocaya, a girl named just like me, which is Odette, and has her own bakery too, sells cookies and stuff, and we're building this new generation of chefs now that is our age. The word is lucky. Our industry is bringing people to our city.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And your industry is the gateway. When you're thinking of traveling, the first thing most people think is, "Where am I going to eat?" I have to ask you. What are three spots that you've been enjoying recently that you would recommend?
Odette Olavarri:
One of my favorites is Havre 77 from Eduardo Garcia, the same owner of Maximo Bistro.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yeah, a great spot.
Odette Olavarri:
This is like a French bistro, really cozy, and I really admire him as a chef. I really like him. So I would say that one's my first. The second one would be Erre, which is my sister's bistro actually in Polanco. The food is amazing. It's a very small place, so perfect for a night date. My third, I think, would be go to eat to San Juan, Mercado de San Juan.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes.
Odette Olavarri:
That is an amazing and, well, now it's becoming really popular, but when I was a little girl, we would go and literally there were the same people selling the same sandwiches.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Isn't that the chefs' market in Mexico City? It's where all the restaurants are getting their produce from?
Odette Olavarri:
Totally. So I think that's an amazing place to go and eat.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Yes. That's awesome. Well, Odette, we are going to do our favorite Cherry Bombe tradition, which is the Future Flash Five. Are you ready?
Odette Olavarri:
Ready.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Okay, let's do it. The future of bakeries.
Odette Olavarri:
Community.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of small businesses.
Odette Olavarri:
Diversity.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of Instagram.
Odette Olavarri:
Behind the scenes.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
The future of Mexico City.
Odette Olavarri:
Warmth.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
And the future of culinary school.
Odette Olavarri:
Discipline.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing. Odette, if we want to follow you and your journey, where are the best places to find you?
Odette Olavarri:
My Instagram is @Odette_____ and the webpage is odette.com.mx.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Perfect. Well, thanks so much. I'm excited to-
Odette Olavarri:
Thank you so much.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
... see how the bakery grows.
Odette Olavarri:
Thank you so much. This was so fun.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Amazing.
Odette Olavarri:
Thank you.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
Before we go, our guest is going to leave a voicemail at The Future Of Food Is You mailbox, just talking to themselves 10 years from now. You have reached The Future Of Food Is You mailbox. Please leave your message after the beep.
Odette Olavarri:
I hope you're surrounded by a team and family that has worked together until here. I hope these relationships are so strong by now, that it feels like what you've created until here is a project of all combined. I want to also thank you for everything you've done until now, because I'm sure that all of this is because of how much energy you've dedicated to this lifetime project. I hope that your bakeries have given people more than amazing pastries, a place to gather.
Abena Anim-Somuah:
That's it for today's show. Do you know someone who you think is the future of food? Tell us about them. Nominate them at the link in our show notes, or leave us a rating and a review and tell me about them in the review. I can't wait to read more about them. Thanks to Kerrygold for sponsoring the show. Visit kerrygoldusa.com for more. The Future Of Food Is You is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Thanks to the team at CityVox Studios, executive producers Kerry Diamond and Catherine Baker, and associate producer Jenna Sadhu. Catch you on the future flip.