Bobbi Brown Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi everyone, you are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City.
Today's guest is the one and only Bobbi Brown, the legendary makeup artist, entrepreneur, and longtime friend of mine. Bobbi's first-ever memoir, titled “Still Bobbi,” dropped last week, and she joins me to talk all about it. I've been interviewing Bobbi since 1998... Oh my gosh. And I thought I knew almost everything about her. Turns out I didn't. Bobbi's book covers her triumphs, tragedies, motherhood, business successes and failures, and of course family, which is the most important thing to her. We talk about all of it, plus her current beauty brand, the wildly successful Jones Road. We also talk about Bobbi's foodie side (she's a certified health coach), and loves clean eating as much as she does clean beauty. Stay tuned for my chat with the always-inspiring Bobbi Brown.
Today's episode of Radio Cherry Bombe is presented by Square. If you've ever dreamed of opening a restaurant, you know it's not easy. There's the food, of course, but also the logistics, the staff, customers, community, and finding ways to keep it all going. Take Yo También Cantina in San Francisco, founded by Kenzie Benesh and Isabella Bertorelli. Kenzie and Isabella didn't go to culinary school; instead, they had amazing family recipes and a whole lot of heart. What started as a pop-up selling arepas turned into a full-fledged café. Then came online preorders, a wine club, bottled hot sauce, merch, even socks. Today, they have nine different revenue streams, and every step of the way Square has helped them bring their ideas to life. From their website and point of sale system to staff management and subscriptions, Square keeps it all running smoothly and in one place. Kenzie says it best: Square helped her get some life back. And if you've got a vision like hers and Isabella's, Square is here for your next big idea too. Go to square.com/big to see how Square can help you.
Today's show is also presented by Ketel One Vodka. Let's take a little trip back in time, picture Holland in 1691, tulips and windmills dot the landscape, and the Nolet family is firing up their first copper still to make spirits. Fast-forward 11 generations to today, and the Nolets have not only perfected their craft, but they're known for one of the most famous spirits around. Ketel One Vodka is distilled with non-GMO ingredients in hand-fired copper pot stills. Their very first still even gave the vodka its name. So, every sip is literally a nod to history. Ketel One is smooth, crisp, and has just the right touch of citrus. In fact, it's made to cocktail. Think classic martinis, pink-hued Cosmos, or espresso martinis. Or maybe it's the star of your own personal signature creation. If you're feeling floral, there's the Ketel One Botanical Collection with its bright, fresh flavor combinations, including grapefruit and rose, cucumber and mint, and peach and orange blossom. Head to ketelone.com for recipes, new twists on the classics, and all the cocktail inspo you need. Don't forget, you must be 21 to drink, and make sure to always drink responsibly.
A big thank you to everyone who joined us at Jubilee L.A., what a weekend! Be sure to check out Cherry Bombe and kerrybombe, that's me on Instagram, for all the highlights. I also want to thank all the Jubilee talent, you are incredible, and of course, our sponsors. Square, S. Pellegrino, California Prunes, Enterprise Mobility, Ghirardelli, and Zacapa. Now, it's on to Jubilee New York in 2026, which I cannot believe. Jubilee NYC tickets are going on sale today at cherrybombe.com. Jubilee NYC is happening on Saturday, April 25th, 2026, at the Glass House on the West Side, and it's going to be an amazing day. I can't wait to tell you more as we book all the talent, plan the menus, and organize everything. Mark your calendars and don't miss out on early bird pricing.
Now, let's check in with today's guest.
Bobbi Brown:
Hi.
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, how are you?
Bobbi Brown:
Good, I might as well start this by telling you what's in my mouth.
Kerry Diamond:
Are we rolling? Tell me what's in your mouth, Bobbi.
Bobbi Brown:
I am having a Werther's butterscotch. I either have a Werther's butterscotch or black licorice after lunch every day, just one, it just shuts me up, and when I'm eating, I know that I'm looking forward to something sweet that kind of tells me I'm finished. So, since we're doing a podcast, if it was live, I would have to chew it really quickly, but...
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, black licorice, real black licorice?
Bobbi Brown:
I like real black licorice, and I even buy the one with salt in it.
Kerry Diamond:
How did that start?
Bobbi Brown:
I don't know, it was an accident, and I'm like, wow. And the good news about black licorice with salt, you never want more than one piece.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm not a black licorice fan, but I wonder if I need to give it a second chance.
Bobbi Brown:
I am a foodie, but I'm also a foodie who struggles with trying to eat the right foods, and healthy, and feel good... I've worked hard on it. I kind of have my hacks right now, and I have things that are non-negotiable.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, I want to know that list of non-negotiables.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, for me, non-negotiables have really evolved because I've always had these health gurus helping me with what I should and shouldn't eat, my non-negotiables are a double espresso in the morning with half-and-half, that I now put a scoop of creatine in because my trainer says it's going to help me build muscle... And it doesn't really taste anything, it doesn't change the taste, so it's okay.
Kerry Diamond:
I don't even know what creatine is really, can you tell me?
Bobbi Brown:
Oh my God. Creatine, it's, as my trainer says, it's a very well studied supplement that helps build muscle, helps keep muscle, helps recovery of muscle, but it's also been proven to help with your brain. So, that's a non-negotiable, and my evening cocktail is a non-negotiable. I don't do it every night, but sometimes I do it five nights a week, some weeks it's four, some weeks it's six.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Are you a tequila girl? If I remember correctly.
Bobbi Brown:
I'm not anymore, I'm a vodka girl.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, Okay.
Bobbi Brown:
So, I'm a vodka girl because I do drink tequila when I go to a party and there's dancing, because tequila for me is like a giant upper, vodka is calm.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Okay. I do need to say our sponsor is a vodka sponsor, and for everybody listening, this is purely a coincidence. I did not know Bobbi drinks vodka.
Bobbi Brown:
Wow. That's amazing.
Kerry Diamond:
So-
Bobbi Brown:
Which vodka?
Kerry Diamond:
Ketel One.
Bobbi Brown:
Ketel One, of course, that's one of my vodkas.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh good.
Bobbi Brown:
We make a cocktail that we call here at Bobbi events, Bobbi Rocks. And this is my favorite cocktail, and kind of a healthy version of a cocktail. It's fresh cucumber juice, I take cucumbers and I juice them... And then I also sometimes at home I'll freeze the cucumber juice so it's easy to throw it in. So, it's cucumber juice, fresh lemon juice, and fresh mint, and vodka, and a big rock, it has to be a big rock.
Kerry Diamond:
I had that at your party, at Diane von Furstenberg's, her office and her store, over on 14th Street. Okay, I'm going to be honest because I love you, and you are more honest than anyone I know, I felt like it needed one more thing.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, you might want something sweet in it, I don't like sweet.
Kerry Diamond:
Maybe something a little sweet, or just a little something to kind of take it to the next level.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, you know what? Everything is adaptable. I will warn people, when I'm at home, I'll put a lot of cucumber juice in, it wakes you up at least twice because it's a diuretic.
Kerry Diamond:
It was very vegetal, I will say that.
Bobbi Brown:
It's kind of like me having this discussion with my dear friend, Missy Robbins, who, I'm obsessed with cottage cheese, and she is appalled at my obsession with cottage cheese.
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. In case you hadn't heard, Cherry Bombe is on Substack. If you're a Substack lover like me, be sure to check it out and subscribe. You can subscribe for free or become a monthly or annual paid subscriber. Each Saturday, we post a recap of our baking podcast, She's My Cherry Pie, and all the fun baking news of the week. We also have recipes, the Cherry Bombe Friday newsletter, and special features from Cherry Bombe's print magazine, like the Missy Robbins cover story from our Italy issue. If you're new to Substack, think about it as the home of modern blogs. If you love reading, writing, recipes, it's the place for you. Visit cherrybombe.substack.com.
I'm going to go back a little bit and say that I did want to establish you are a foodie bona fide before we dive into the memoir, because folks probably don't know how much you care about food and health and nutrition, and the fact that you are a certified health coach, how'd that come about?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I've been called certified before, but yes, I am a health coach. My sister got a degree first from Institute of Integrative Nutrition, and she suggested I do it. So, it's one of the things I did after I left my first company. It was fascinating for me, because I'm someone that has always struggled with what to eat, because food has never really been my friend, I have issues with my digestion, my tummy, I get bloated. And so, I learned a lot about what food works in my body and what doesn't, when I was in school, and since then, I have this amazing team of, a functional nutritionist and her sister, who's a doctor, who has pretty much told me what's wrong with my gut, and it's way better than it's ever been.
Kerry Diamond:
That's good to hear. I didn't realize how tough your mom was on you regarding diet when you were growing up, and it was that generation where diet culture was so pervasive and damaging. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Bobbi Brown:
Sure. My mother and my father, when they were young kids, were chubby. My dad's nickname was fat boy. By the time my dad was 18 years old, he lost all his weight, and he was the most gorgeous guy, he looked like a young Michael Landon, and if people don't know Michael Landon, he was really handsome.
Kerry Diamond:
“Little House on the Prairie,” know it well.
Bobbi Brown:
Yes. And my mother was chubby too, and she somehow lost her weight, so they turned into these really gorgeous, very vain people. It really mattered what you look like. So, when I was growing up, and it wasn't about health and wellness, it was the diet culture. My mom and I went on every diet out there. We went on the pineapple diet, she used to give me honey, oil, and vinegar at night, whatever was popular, torn out of magazines, diets... And actually, after my mom passed, my sister found this pile of her saves, and one of the thing was the grapefruit diet. I think you had one piece of toast, one steak, and two grapefruits a day. All right, anyone's going to lose weight because you're not eating the right amount of calories. But we tried it all, and as soon as we would go off the diets and eat things, we'd gain weight.
So, that was kind of the start of my cycle, and somehow in high school I figured out a way to lose all the weight, and it wasn't a good way, my doctor gave me diet pills. And my mother allowed this, and she thought it was a great idea. I lost all the weight, but what my mother didn't know is that the pharmacist was refilling them, I think I was on them for a year. And I was very, very thin in high school. I fainted one day at the dressmaker, and I came clean to her and she said, "No, no, no, no, not happening." So, I started getting more interested in healthier eating, but then the big thing came when I moved to New York, because when you're a young makeup artist in New York, working with all the supermodels, you're at all these fabulous shoots. I was pretty broke in the beginning, and they had catered lunches. Do you remember all those lunches?
Kerry Diamond:
Mm-hmm.
Bobbi Brown:
With the pastas, and a great Italian caterer, and there was cookies, and bagels in the morning, and just this incredibly beautiful, fancy food. I ate all of it, and then I realized, why am I so tired? Why am I so sluggish in the afternoon? And why can I not fit into my jeans the next day? So, one day I said, okay, Bobbi, you can't eat what everyone else is eating, and I started bringing vegetables in a Ziploc so I could nibble on vegetables, and I started eating more salads, and less of the bad stuff, and that started a healthier journey for me.
Kerry Diamond:
What did this mean for your family eventually? Because you have three sons. Were your kids allowed to eat whatever they wanted? I know you didn't want to repeat and pass on the patterns that your mom had, or did you not operate that way?
Bobbi Brown:
Ironically, and luckily, I had three sons and not three daughters. I might've made the daughters crazy. I definitely had a healthier attitude with food, and I did care about what my kids put in their mouth from, I didn't like chemicals, I didn't like processed food. I never did, and I didn't think they tasted good, and I would try... I used to buy, what are those shortbread cookies from the U.K.? Because there was three ingredients. Yeah, Walkers. Walkers. Because it's butter, wheat, and sugar. Well, I was okay with those, I wasn't okay with the things that have numbers to them, and dyes, and those things. I was okay with-
Kerry Diamond:
Right, you're a big reader of labels, whether it's a beauty product or a food item.
Bobbi Brown:
I do. Right. I do, I read labels, and I now pay attention to protein, fiber, fat, and make sure that whatever food I'm eating has all of that in it. Because I learned that's what fills me up is having a combination, and it's why the keto diet never worked for me because I just never filled up.
Kerry Diamond:
So, the fact that you're a health coach, have you coached anyone?
Bobbi Brown:
Anyone that'll listen, but no one pays for it. No one pays me for it. But it's funny, I was a waitress out of college, and I'll never forget one time this person ordered some kind of dessert, and I said to them, "You know, I just passed the kitchen and they have the most wonderful strawberries, would you rather have strawberries?" And the person said, "No." But-
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, you didn't last long as a waitress, if I remember that from the book.
Bobbi Brown:
I did not last long as a waitress.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. I think I've asked you this before, but do you have a private chef?
Bobbi Brown:
I don't, I have never had a private chef.
Kerry Diamond:
You have so much money, why don't you go give a nice chef a job and get a private chef, Bobbi?
Bobbi Brown:
Honestly, it's not about the money, it's about having another person in my house. My husband and I don't have people in our house, we are not those people.
Kerry Diamond:
That would be fun social content.
Bobbi Brown:
I know-
Kerry Diamond:
Because there's so much good private chef content out there, I want to see the Bobbi Brown private chef content.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, first of all, my private chef content would be my daughter-in-law, Payal, who's the most incredible, incredible chef, I don't know what she does to food, it's so delicious. My two sons are incredible, incredible chefs, and if you look on my Instagram, you'll see all the food things, because during COVID, we all live together. And my husband doesn't usually feel like cooking, but he's really great when he cooks. I am definitely the worst in the whole house, just because I like things really plain. I go to my Aunt Alice's retirement community, and I order a tuna fish on a bed of lettuce, and it's like the plainest, simplest, no salt, I am so happy, I could definitely live in a retirement home.
Kerry Diamond:
One of the first places I'd like to start is about luck. You've had a lot of tragedy in your life, which we'll talk about, but the number of times you were in the right place at the right time was astounding. A lot of women bristle at the idea that luck contributes to their success. You do mention luck a lot, I've heard you mention it in interviews, I think you mentioned it in the book, but what is your take on that?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, first of all, I am so lucky I met my husband. I didn't do anything to get him, I didn't hire a matchmaker, I didn't-
Kerry Diamond:
There were no dating apps.
Bobbi Brown:
There were no dating apps. And just a mutual friend of ours said, you guys should meet each other. And I was either broken up with or in between a breakup, I didn't know because we kept getting back together-
Kerry Diamond:
Right, you had been in a relationship
Bobbi Brown:
For 12 years.
Kerry Diamond:
For 12 years. Then you were in a love triangle, and then you-
Bobbi Brown:
Before that, before the relationship was the love triangle, yes, which is in the book. But when I met Steven, I got lucky. I didn't know anything about him, I just knew I was going to marry him.
Kerry Diamond:
You didn't even know his last name, and you told your dad-
Bobbi Brown:
I didn't know his last name.
Kerry Diamond:
... you were going to marry this guy.
Bobbi Brown:
Didn't know his last name, didn't know where he went to college, didn't know anything.
Kerry Diamond:
But you did have so many other moments that some people could attribute to luck, but when I was trying to put all the pieces together, you always asked the right question, or jumped on an opportunity, or saw an opportunity, where some people might just be like, oh, that's nice. Like when you went to the original Kiehl's and you met the chemist, you're like, oh, this guy can make me a lipstick. People need to understand, this was before Sephora even existed, this was before lots of makeup artists had lines. Or you walk into some party and you meet the head beauty buyer for Bergdorf Goodman, and then they start selling your lipsticks, and it takes off wildly. Or you were at something and you meet NBC Executive Jeff Zucker's mother or grandmother?
Bobbi Brown:
Grandmother.
Kerry Diamond:
Grandmother. You tell her you want to be a regular on the “Today Show,” and it happens.
Bobbi Brown:
Right, right. Jeff said, okay. Yeah. And then I asked Jeff because he said, what else do you want? And I could have said, I want to get paid, which I didn't say that, I said, "I want to be the beauty editor, I want a title." I thought, oh, that'd be so cool to see my name, next up, beauty editor, Bobbi Brown. I always see or think about the unimaginable, right? When my “Today Show…” Which I was on for 14 years, once a month, and that really put Bobbi Brown Cosmetics on the map in the beginning. But when that ended, because NBC was going through something, I was bummed, and I was like, “Oh, it's done.” I don't know, I just had this idea while I was walking, and I picked up the phone, and I texted Elvis Duran, who I knew, and I said, "Can I be the beauty editor of the 'Elvis Duran Show?'" And he said, “Okay.” So, I'm like, all right, well, I got something to look forward to.
Kerry Diamond:
I guess in a sense, you make luck happen. What's the formula there? What's the secret there?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, first of all, just seeing possibilities. Where a lot of people end up seeing obstacles, I see opportunity. Okay, so there's an obstacle, well, okay, stop. No, go around it, go over it, go under it. And a lot of things don't work on a day-to-day basis, but you're like, all right, well, that didn't work, so what do we do now? That's kind of just always been my attitude.
Kerry Diamond:
As I mentioned, there's a lot of tragedy in your book, including your mother's and your brother's struggles with mental illness and his untimely death, but interestingly, you don't dwell on those chapters of your life, and it's clear you had a lot of resilience and ability to carry on even from a young age, and I'm wondering where that resilience came from.
Bobbi Brown:
I don't really know the answer to that. Look, I think about my ancestors that were in Auschwitz, that's resilient, I had a great uncle that literally survived, and more than one relative that is, but how did I get it? I don't know. Kind of just born with it. And my parents got divorced, I didn't know other kids that had divorced parents, that was a bummer. But you know what? I was so busy with my friends that I'm sure I felt bad, and felt sad, but then all these good things started happening. My dad would do these special things with us, brought us to this Cubs game, we thought we were so cool until I got hit in the head with a ball. I did. How many people go to the baseball game and get hit in the head with the ball? Well, I did. Oscar Gamble.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you get to keep the ball?
Bobbi Brown:
I did not, somebody stole it. Can you imagine someone reached down-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's so rude.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, and I didn't even go to the hospital, I just had this giant shiner.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you view yourself as a resilient person?
Bobbi Brown:
I am, I'm resilient. I am... If I thought about all the times people would say to me, "No, no, you can't, you can't, no one wants this..." I'm like, okay. And it's not that I don't feel it, I feel bummed out, or I feel sad, or whatever, but I'm like, okay. And I don't always listen. And that is including the people I work with, both that I worked with at the old company and at this company, people just say, that doesn't make any sense, why are you doing this? And guess what? I don't need to have that discussion, I don't have to explain why I'm doing it, it makes sense to me.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you a crier? I can't see you like curled in a ball, crying.
Bobbi Brown:
It's so funny, I'm not a crier. I do cry on Instagram at happy things. I really do. When I see these wonderful, amazing people out there in the world, I just, I can't help it, I do, I burst out into tears. I'm a sucker for niceness, and I'm a sucker for people opening up their hearts, and their lives, and doing wonderful things.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, want to talk about your book and Ina Garten's book. Reading your book, I felt like yours and Ina's books were very similar in a sense, because they can both be read as business books. I don't want to give anything away, but looking back from the creation of your company to the years after Estée Lauder acquired Bobbi Brown, what would you have done differently after the acquisition?
Bobbi Brown:
I really don't think anything because I can't, right? So, what would I do differently? Would I... It's easy for me to say, I would've been tougher, I would've said this... I wouldn't have been, right? I wasn't. You know how many times I've talked about this 25-year non-compete, it's become headlines? So, if I didn't sign a 25-year non-compete, then I wouldn't have those headlines. So, it is what it is, and I guess that's the resilience in me. I don't think I would do anything different, and honestly, when I talk about the tough times and the angst and the emotion, I went through it. And guess what? It's okay to go through these things if we only knew that things would get better afterwards. It's easy for me now to look back and say, well, it was only a moment, but I had angst for a good year or two after I left the company.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, I can imagine.
Bobbi Brown:
It got easier, but as things... And then of course, Jones Road launched, and then that was a whole new ballgame.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you know Ina? I feel like you two don't really know each other.
Bobbi Brown:
I go up to her in restaurants in the Hamptons and say hello, I'm trying to remember if I... I do know her, and I just wonder, did I ever do her makeup? I must have, because I did Martha Stewart's makeup for her first-ever cookbook.
Kerry Diamond:
I would love to hear you and Ina in conversation. Did you read her memoir?
Bobbi Brown:
I did, of course I did.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, it's really good.
Bobbi Brown:
And I came to see her backstage when she spoke at the Montclair Film Festival, where Stephen Colbert interviewed her, she was amazing. Listening to her book and listening to her talk about it, and reading it, really helped me write my memoir because I'm like, okay, I get it. Because I was so worried that my memoir would just be boring for people, I didn't think I had a lot of tragedy and all this stuff. Yeah, these things happened to me, but I remember my childhood really positively, I remember being surrounded with supportive, loving parents. Okay, they were flawed, but whose parents aren't flawed? My kids think I'm flawed as a parent, that's just the nature of being a mom. Now, I'm like, okay, I guess I had tragedy growing up. My brother lived until he was early 60s, and my mother lived to mid-80s. Both of their lives were incredibly challenging, and I was there to pick up the pieces, with my husband, and with whoever else. But it's funny, now that they're not here anymore, I don't think about as much of the tragedies, I think about the good things. That's just my nature.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, so you're not super buds with Ina yet, there's still time for you two to become best friends, but you do know Stanley Tucci, and his wife is your literary agent. Come on.
Bobbi Brown:
Aw. I know. Honestly, first of all, who doesn't love Stanley Tucci? Okay, everyone loves Stanley Tucci. His wife, who's also Emily Blunt's sister, is my U.K. agent, and she was in the Hamptons, and she said, "Can you meet for coffee?" I said, "Great." She goes, "Well, I'll see what Stanley's doing." And I walked in, and Stanley and my agent were sitting there, and I was like, oh my God. So, he's the sweetest, nicest guy.
Kerry Diamond:
We are Stanley stans big time here at Cherry Bombe.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. And if he's in town when I go to the U.K., he promised that he would make me pasta.
Kerry Diamond:
I want you to make your cocktail for Stanley, and I want him to-
Bobbi Brown:
He would like it because-
Kerry Diamond:
No, he wouldn't.
Bobbi Brown:
... he's a health guy. You know he's a health guy.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm going to wager that he wouldn't love that cocktail, but I bet he'll tell you it's fine.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. I will find out.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay,
Bobbi Brown:
We will report back.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, back to you, if you had to teach a class on entrepreneurship, which would be amazing, I would sign up for that class, what are some of the things you'd cover on day one?
Bobbi Brown:
I would cover on ideas. People don't realize companies start with what? People always come to me with these beautiful decks, and they don't even know what it is, they just want a company. So, what is it? Is it granola? Is it a special bag that you could fold twice, and put in the dishwasher, and the microwave... Whatever it is, what is it? So, that would be the first thing, what is it? Then it's how. And depending on what it is, then there's different hows. If it's a product, whether it's a dog biscuit, or a granola, or a lip gloss, you need a lot of little ones and you need to start giving them to people and seeing what people think. And just know if people ask you for more.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Let's talk about Jones Road, your current company.
Bobbi Brown:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
You know I am a fan, I was counting, I have three of your products on right now.
Bobbi Brown:
Aw.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, actually, wait four, because I have the lip and cheek stick, and then I have Miracle Balm over that. The mascara I use on my lashes every day, I have not curled my lashes in years since you launched.
Bobbi Brown:
Wow.
Kerry Diamond:
And your new lipstick, which you graciously sent to me, and I love it, it's so sheer and light.
Bobbi Brown:
Nice, right? It looks like a traditional matte lipstick, but it's not.
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Bobbi Brown:
That's what I liked about it.
Kerry Diamond:
I hadn't worn lipstick in a long time, and I love how it feels. I'll put the links in show notes, folks, if you want to try any of these. But tell us about Jones Road, what's it all about? How's it different from your first beauty line?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, when I first started the first beauty line, before I sold it to Estée Lauder even, it was more things that were coming out of my head, my heart, my things... I didn't ask a lot of people's opinions on things, and I just did it. And when you're part of a billion-dollar brand, there's things you have to do that you don't think are right, and then eventually there's things that were being done that I even didn't know about that were getting launched. So, you can imagine that doesn't feel good. So, when I had this opportunity with Jones Road, I'm like, huh, I bet... Well, I didn't even say, I bet. I said, I wonder if it's even possible to make good makeup with clean formulas, that was my absolute question, I didn't know the answer to that, and then I said, I bet I could sell it not being in a department store. And that was the start of a D2C brand.
Kerry Diamond:
Ageism is such a big thing in every industry, food, fashion, business, did you have any worries that the industry wouldn't be accepting of someone of your generation?
Bobbi Brown:
I didn't. I didn't, but ironically, my husband said to me, "This time around, you're probably going to have to hire a celebrity to be the face of the brand," and I said, "That makes no sense at all. It makes no sense at all." So, that's another time I just didn't listen to... That could have made me feel bad and just go home, but I'm like, "That doesn't make sense." But I'm smart enough to say if I need to, I will, but I don't think I need to, and I didn't. I also knew that I'm someone that has always taught different generations, from their mothers, their daughters, their grandmothers, okay, so now I'm the grandmother, I could still teach the mothers and the daughters.
Kerry Diamond:
I love that you use the word teach. Do you think the difference between your brand and so many others is the fact that you are a teacher and an artist first and foremost?
Bobbi Brown:
I think those are both very helpful things, I'm a teacher, I'm an artist, and I think the difference of Jones Road and a lot of other brands on the market is Jones Road really does share my vision and my aesthetic. Not everyone likes a Jones Road face, right? Some people like full coverage, some people like overlined lips and contour... People still like that look. I guess they do because I sure see a lot of people with it. But if you are someone that likes the aesthetic that I like, Jones Road is a really great place to start.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. I asked on Instagram for some questions to ask you. First one, "What's the same and different about building a company today versus the 90s?" Bobbi Brown launched in 1991, right?
Bobbi Brown:
Right. Well, in the 90s, in order to sell products, we had to do press in magazines, that was the only option I needed to go into a store and invite customers in, and if I was lucky, I saw 100 customers. We still do press, because I love press, but I now reach so many more people with Jones Road, with either our social or our digital ads. I'm not in retail, and I don't have to go do a personal appearance with 100 people.
Kerry Diamond:
But you still do personal appearances.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I'm doing book signings, and mostly book talks, where I used to sit in Neiman Marcus and do signings, now, most of my book talks are at book stores or in theaters, and not sitting at a bookstore waiting for someone to walk in, like I did in some of my early books.
Kerry Diamond:
Will you sell Jones Road one day?
Bobbi Brown:
I have no thoughts or plans, people ask me all the time, I didn't think we were going to sell Bobbi. I used to say absolutely not. You never know, you never know, so.
Kerry Diamond:
"What is your favorite type of cake?"
Bobbi Brown:
My favorite type of cake? It's so funny. I don't eat cake, I don't think I like any cake.
Kerry Diamond:
So, what's a Bobbi Brown, what's the perfect birthday cake for you?
Bobbi Brown:
I'm really weird, I love whipped cream, and my mother-in-law used to always make this cake with whipped cream and those chocolate wafers. I forget the name-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, like an icebox cake?
Bobbi Brown:
Like an icebox cake, that's my favorite. I'd rather eat ice cream than cake. I don't know, I don't do good with flour. White flour and sugar doesn't make me feel good. Sorry, Missy Robbins. So, I don't eat a lot of cookies, and I'm actually working with... I think I told you about it. I'm working with this baker in East Hampton, who's coming up with a "Bobbi Muffin." It is so good, I said, look, I want a muffin that I could just grab out of my freezer, take it with me, or throw it in the microwave, and it's got the right amount of protein, it's like oat-based, because instead of eating an oatmeal, make a muffin out of it. It's got high fiber, it's got all the right walnuts, and fat, but it has to taste good, and it has to be something I look forward to, kind of remind me of an old brand muffin. So, I'm working on it, and then that'll be my baked good. Maybe then I'll make it into a cookie.
Kerry Diamond:
Yum. Okay. Well, we want that recipe when it's ready. Back to the crowdsourced questions, "Do you sometimes feel grief or loss that your name and OG beauty brand belong to someone else?"
Bobbi Brown:
I did in the beginning, I don't anymore. Like anything, you have to come to peace with it. Look, I'm still Bobbi Brown, so selling my name for cosmetics purposes has lead me and my family on a really good life, and we were able to send 20 to 25 kids to college because of it.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. I read about that in the book, that's amazing. What do you do to relax?
Bobbi Brown:
I don't really-
Kerry Diamond:
Aside from drink your vegetal cocktail.
Bobbi Brown:
Right. I really need to work on those things because it's really hard for me to relax. As soon as I'm done with one thing, and I'm so tired, and I get in bed, and it takes me a long time to get in bed because I don't know about you, but in the bathroom, it's like by the time I take the makeup off and clean my teeth, and put my teeth thing back in, and I put my hormones on my arm, and my whatever else I have to take, it's like 15 minutes, my husband's like, what are you doing? I get in bed, and I'm like, oh... And then, all of a sudden my mind goes to, oh, I'm going to Washington tomorrow, when am I going to pack? And then, oh, and after that I'm going to Chicago, I'm like, I don't know how to shut my brain off at night.
Kerry Diamond:
Bobbi, do you have a motto or a mantra?
Bobbi Brown:
I have a lot of them, but probably the first one that's going to pop into my head is just be nice. Be nice, and you got this.
Kerry Diamond:
I ask a lot about learning to trust your gut, because I feel like a lot of the women who come on the show, if they weren't born with that, it's something they learn eventually. I know it took me a really long time to learn that. I get the sense that you've trusted your gut since you popped into this world.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, I think I've always trusted my gut, just emotionally felt things and made decisions. I'm also the same person that asks a million people's opinion before I make my final decision. It depends what it is. I have my board of directors, as I call them, my posse, and I ask, I'm thinking of this, what do you think of this? And then I'll make a decision. Sometimes.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, not going to do a full speed round, but what are you streaming right now? I'm curious.
Bobbi Brown:
I'm actually waiting for all of the shows to come back, we're kind of in between right now. I'm waiting for “Hacks.” I've been doing a lot of documentaries in between. I love documentaries. I just watched “The Beginning of Disco.” I watched Liza, who was fantastic, and was it “Luther?” Yeah. Yeah, “Luther” was great, and Bob Mackie was fantastic. I used to do Bob Mackie's fashion shows, the kindest man, but what a guy. So, that I highly recommend it.
Kerry Diamond:
I think I know your answer for my final question, if you had to be... Oh wait, maybe not, there are probably three contenders. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Bobbi Brown:
Sorry, I love Missy to pieces, it wouldn't be Missy. I need a health chef. I need a full-on nutritional chef. So, the only one I could think of is Tricia Williams. That's all there is, there's just, you got to eat this food because you got to then go probably find the food, I'm going to need my energy. Because I'm getting off that island, right? I'm not just sitting there eating pasta, I'm getting off that island.
Kerry Diamond:
Wait, I don't know Tricia Williams.
Bobbi Brown:
Oh, you don't know her? She has-
Kerry Diamond:
Uh-huh, I'm looking her up right now.
Bobbi Brown:
... a company called Food Matters. Now, it's a delivery service, but she is a functional, I guess originally nutritionist, but chef. Who spends time talking about you and what you're feeling, and what you're struggling, and what you like, and then makes customized food for you.
Kerry Diamond:
Tricia Williams, I'm going to read up more about you.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
I thought you might say three-way tie between Stanley, Ina, and Missy.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I was only thinking about the food, not who I'd like to hang with. That would be interesting.
Kerry Diamond:
That would be a party.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, that would be a party.
Kerry Diamond:
Anyway, please invite me to that party.
Bobbi Brown:
Okay.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, Bobbi Brown, you are amazing. Thank you for doing this.
Bobbi Brown:
Aw. Thank you. Anytime, love you.
Kerry Diamond:
I love you too. I can't wait to finish the book, I'm only halfway through.
Bobbi Brown:
Oh my gosh.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. And you read the audiobook, right?
Bobbi Brown:
I do, I read the audiobook.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Because I know there are a lot of folks who like to listen rather than read.
Bobbi Brown:
Today, the audiobook is number one in business and entrepreneurship. There's all those lists, like another list, I'm 38 of something. But there's all... So, not that I'm competitive, but I do check.
Kerry Diamond:
All right, Bobbi, have a blast on the book tour, can't wait to see you in person.
Bobbi Brown:
Thanks. See you. Bye.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Bobbi Brown. Pick up her book or give the audio version a listen. I promise you'll love it and learn a lot from Bobbi. Curious about her Jones Road line? Check out our show notes for links to my favorite Jones Road products. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu, our talent guru is Londyn Crenshaw, our editorial assistant is Brigid Pittman, and our head of partnerships is Rachel Close. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.