Carla Hall Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. I'm the founder and editor of Cherry Bomb Magazine.
Today's guest is one of the most inspiring folks around. It's Carla Hall, and I'm so excited to welcome her back to Radio Cherry Bomeb. Lots of you know Carla from “Top Chef” and “The Chew” and the Food Network. Well, she has a brand new show on Max called “Chasing Flavor,” and it just debuted last week and is streaming right now. Carla travels around the world exploring the origin stories behind our favorite foods from ice cream to her signature dish, chicken pot pie. Carla joins me in just a minute to talk about her new show, hitting milestones, and embracing life to the fullest. Stay tuned.
Some of you know that Cherry Bombe is raising money for the first time. We bootstrapped for the past decade and learned a lot of fiscal responsibility in the process, as you can imagine. But we started the company like a lot of you entrepreneurs out there, maxing out our credit cards, breaking into our 401ks, the things you probably shouldn't do, but that you sometimes have to do. I'm proud though that we made it to year 10. We're raising money via a community round on Wefunder. If you'd like to learn more and invest in Cherry Bombe, visit wefunder.com/cherrybombe. I'll leave that link in the show notes. I would love nothing more than for all of you to call yourselves Cherry Bombe investors. Make sure to read the Wefunder Investor FAQs, though, this is a real investment and not a Kickstarter. Thank you to everyone who's participated in our Wefunder to date. The round closes Monday, February 12th. You might not know this, but Cherry Bombe has a membership program.
Today's Cherry Bombe member shout out is Lois Cho of Cho Wines of Oregon. I had the pleasure of trying Cho Wines in Seattle last year. Cho Wines Estate Tasting Room and Winery will officially open to guests starting in March. Lois said this has been a decade plus in the making, so congratulations to the team at Cho Wines. They're also busy working on the second annual Oregon AAPI Food and Wine Fest, which will take place May 18th and 19th at the Stoller Family Estate in Dayton, Oregon. For more on Cho Wines and everything they're up to, go to getchowines.com. And if you'd like to become a Cherry Bombe member, visit cherrybombe.com for more details.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Carla Hall, welcome back to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Carla Hall:
It's so great to be here. It's so great to see you.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm so excited about your new show, and can't wait to hear all about it from you. It's called “Chasing Flavor.” I watched the ice cream episode last night, and the whole series just seems like a dream job. First off, I want you to tell everybody what “Chasing Flavor” is all about.
Carla Hall:
“Chasing Flavor” is all about taking iconic American dishes and tracing back all of the cultures who had a hand in that dish, and looking at their contributions where you realize food is about evolution. We're doing the etymology. It's not necessarily the etymology of food, but we're choosing a path. We're choosing like, "Hey, we can go left or right or straight." And we make that decision and then we discover something about this dish. And so it's a little bit of history. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot about people, and less specifically about the dish because it's really about the people.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, you make history fun.
Carla Hall:
Oh, my job is done. I think what I want people to walk away with, if you don't know the story, you really don't know the dish.
Kerry Diamond:
That's great. I did come away with that watching the ice cream one.
Carla Hall:
Did you want ice cream at the end?
Kerry Diamond:
Well, we're going to talk about this. I wanted Turkish ice cream because I've never had it. I've got a lot of questions. What other subjects do you dig into?
Carla Hall:
Chicken pot pie, al pastor, shrimp and grits, low and slow, which includes barbecue. The last one is hot chicken.
Kerry Diamond:
How in the world did you narrow it down?
Carla Hall:
It had a lot to do with dishes that I had a connection to. A lot of people don't know this, but chicken pot pie runs parallel with my culinary career, from when I really didn't cook and I was doing Julia Child's chicken pot pie recipe where it took me three days. And I didn't even make the crust. It just felt like it took three days. Maybe it didn't take three days, but it felt like it took three days. And then being on “Top Chef” and winning with that dish, and then going on “Jimmy Fallon,” and then putting it in my first cookbook. I'm like, well, it has to be on my first travelog show. And then hot chicken for obvious reasons. I'm from Nashville. And then we were looking at stories or dishes that had a really deep history, and history where we could take a varied and diverse look at that history and storytelling from different cultures.
Kerry Diamond:
Ice cream being such a great example. You trace it all the way back to Mesopotamia.
Carla Hall:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
So interesting. Okay, so for the ice cream episode alone, you traveled everywhere from Philly to Florence, Italy. What other cities do you visit for the series?
Carla Hall:
San Antonio. We go to Charleston. We're in LA, we're in DC, we're in Accra. Ghana. We go to Cornwall, we're in England. We're in Jamaica, Turkey.
Kerry Diamond:
How many of these were new destinations for you?
Carla Hall:
I had never been to Istanbul. I'd never been to Jamaica, believe it or not. I know, it's crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
That must have been fun.
Carla Hall:
It was so much fun. I can't believe that I'd never been there. And then I went back on another trip. I went back to Turkey a month later, I went back to Istanbul. And then I had never been to Ghana, so I'd been to West Africa before, but it was my first trip to Ghana.
Kerry Diamond:
A lot of stamps in that passport.
Carla Hall:
I know.
Kerry Diamond:
Which episode surprised you the most?
Carla Hall:
Obviously being in Istanbul with the Dondurma. I'd never had it. I'm like, "What?" I mean even seeing it, I just couldn't wrap my head around it. It was like this boardwalk attraction. It was just crazy.
Kerry Diamond:
This is the Turkish ice cream? Can you say the word again?
Carla Hall:
Dondurma.
Kerry Diamond:
Dondurma.
Carla Hall:
Huh, huh. Dondurma. Because they eat it with a knife and a fork if you can imagine, because it's very stretchy. It does melt, but that's how they eat it. But the other surprising journey was al pastor, and I think it was because I don't really have a connection to tacos. You have the West Coast tacos, the LA tacos, you have all of this. I eat tacos, but I grew up in Nashville, Tennessee. Honestly, we were getting tacos out of a box. Come on.
And hard shells, all of that. But as a chef, I eat tacos, but I really didn't dive into the history of this particular dish. And so that was surprising in learning the history and people fleeing because of religious persecution. But also I had just done hot chicken, which was kind of emotional for me. We had just done barbecue. I was at a plantation. And so when I stepped into al pastor, I'm like, "Whew, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just want to learn. I just want to be here and present." And so I was really open and also relieved that it wasn't something that was emotionally heavy for me. So that was welcomed and wonderful.
Kerry Diamond:
The shows are surprisingly heavy. Your brand is not heavy.
Carla Hall:
Right.
Kerry Diamond:
But even just the ice cream episode, how many of these culinary professionals who are enslaved individuals contributed to the history of ice cream?
Carla Hall:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
It was very moving
Carla Hall:
Yes. And just to hear that. And so for people... And I think it's at the right time for the show to come out during Black History Month, and learning about Augustus Jackson, maybe people know about James Hemmings, but to learn a little bit about the contributions of black people. But also, again, we're looking at Italians, we're looking at Turkish people, and then we are in that story too. Of course you have all the Europeans, but we are in that story as well as black people. And so I was very proud to tell that story of Augustus Jackson.
Kerry Diamond:
You are an expressive human being and that's one of the things we love so much about you. But I could tell when you were truly surprised. During the ice cream episode when you were on that boat and you had that drink that the ice cream was based on.
Carla Hall:
You see me processing it, and when I have something new, I immediately go in my head and I go through this Rolodex of flavors and textures. "What is it? What is it?" And so when I had that hot, solid drink, I'm like, "Okay, what does it remind me of?" And then yes, it reminded me of my grandmother's boiled custard. But also the surprising thing was that it reminded me of cream of wheat, like a loose cream of wheat. And I immediately try to find the thing so that you can go on the journey with me. "You all, this is what I'm tasting. I want you to feel and taste this silky cream of wheat. This is what we're doing right now."
Kerry Diamond:
And explain the ice cream because I love ice cream. I wish I could eat even more ice cream than I already do, but the stretchiness of the Turkish ice cream just blew my mind.
Carla Hall:
It comes from salep, which is a purple orchid, and it's ground and it's a powder. It's milk, goat's milk, salep, sugar. That's what makes the ice cream. And so when you are warming up the milk, you have the salep and the sugar and you put the milk in, you whisk it until it becomes thick. And so that is a drink that set these stands around Turkey in Istanbul and other places. And so when it's frozen, it becomes rock hard. So they have to bang it-
Kerry Diamond:
With giant mallets.
Carla Hall:
... with giant mallets. And so when you're having it and it's hot, it tastes like this silky, almost like it's coating your mouth, and it has this loose texture that's kind of stretchy. As it freezes, it literally is like taffy. It is incredible. And it's a very clean taste. And I never had it there with flavors, I only had the plain one. Because when I have a new experience, I want the plain thing. How is it before you manipulate it, put something different in it, other flavors? I want to taste the actual thing.
Kerry Diamond:
What is the mouth feel?
Carla Hall:
It tastes like silk. If you eat something oily and you inhale, you have a film on your mouth, it's like that, but a little silkier. The ice cream absolutely has a chew, because when you lick it, you don't really get any.
Kerry Diamond:
So you have to bite it?
Carla Hall:
You have to bite it. And eventually it will melt, but by the time it melts, you really don't have texture and structure and it's not as interesting. So it has a chew. It's like very cold taffy.
Kerry Diamond:
If anyone listening knows a Turkish ice cream place in New York, DM me because I'm going.
Carla Hall:
I would love to put together a Google restaurant list for the show. So wherever people are, I'm asking you to get your best shrimp and grits, like your hot chicken, all of the things that we showcase in this show, to put your Google list together and share it with me. So when I go to that city, you can actually experience, you can chase your own flavor.
Kerry Diamond:
Carla, how did the show come about?
Carla Hall:
A conversation at dinner. One of the conversation starters that I have... I'm one of those people when I am in a car service and I go long distances, and if the person is from another country, my conversation starter, because I'm a talker, is... I know, surprises you.
Kerry Diamond:
No, I'm so happy. We love a talker on a podcast episode.
Carla Hall:
Is not, "How are you?" I always ask, "What dish do you miss from home?" And I watch their faces change, and it becomes very personal, and the joy that you see. And I was sharing this story at a dinner party and it was with my literary agent, Janice Dono, and her husband was there, Peter Geller, and he was like, "Wow, that's so cool." Never said anything to me. He goes off and mentions it to a friend of his who is the president of Original Productions. Jeff Hassler gets it, two weeks later, they're calling me, "We think this is a show." And I said, "Hey, I am going to be in New York soon. Let's talk." I go there, we're talking about biscuits. I go the next day, we have a biscuit class and all the things. And fast-forward, I think it was probably six weeks that we created the pitch for the show, and then a year later we were shooting it. It really was a happy organic accident.
Kerry Diamond:
That's amazing. So you didn't have to go through that traditional laborious pitch process?
Carla Hall:
No. No. We pitched it to three different places. Food Network wanted it. A couple other places were interested in... Well, Discovery, and that was the basis of my deal with Discovery. We finished this in January of 2021. It's been on the shelf waiting and I think it's coming out at the right time.
Kerry Diamond:
There's lots to unpack there. That had to have been a little painful though.
Carla Hall:
It was painful.
Kerry Diamond:
Waiting for so long.
Carla Hall:
It was painful. And honestly, I said, Okay, if they're not going to air it, they're not going to air it." Because so many shows with the reorganization of networks and merges, some shows were just cut and people put their work in, heart into developing things that we'll never see. And so I'm very grateful and blessed.
Kerry Diamond:
But just to go back for a second, because I know a lot of our listeners are very interested in how TV works, how the streamers work. You said your deal with Discovery. What is that all about?
Carla Hall:
So gosh, how many years ago? Probably four years ago, this big announcement that "Oh, Carla has signed a deal with Discovery," which meant that I was doing things with the Food Network. And everybody's like, "Oh, congratulations, congratulations." And it was a two-year deal. And when I was approached about doing something, a one-off show or doing an overall deal, I was like, "Oh, I just want to do the show. I don't really need the deal." But I'm like, "I'll just take the little thing." But we ended up doing an overall deal, which also encompassed me doing a lot of the baking championship shows and all of that. And so that was for two years.
So basically, I can't go outside of this family to do other things. I'm sort of locked in. I don't know if you know anything about enneagrams. So enneagrams I'm a seven, I'm the adventurer. I'm like, "Wait, I love being a free agent. I don't need the security." For me, I'm a free agent and I am okay with not knowing where my next paycheck is coming from. But some people want security. I can't imagine... I loved doing “The Chew.” I absolutely loved it. Seven years, 1200 shows, absolutely loved it. And if someone said, "Hey, do you want to do that again?" I'm like, "I don't know." Because that means there's so many things I can't do. And so I love new, I love newness and Discovery.
Kerry Diamond:
So you did pitch it to a few different places.
Carla Hall:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
How did that process go? Because you're Carla Hall, everybody knows you, everybody knows your brand, but you still had to convince somebody.
Carla Hall:
Yeah. The thing is, I can't just walk in and say, "Hey, I'm Carla Hall," because again, no one has seen me in this role. I had to prove myself with this role. So after we had the go ahead, when we did the six-week thing, we shot a sizzle. We did it in a day and a half in LA. I was only shooting for, I want to say maybe five hours total time, a day and a half, to get that sizzle done. It was really quick. And we took that out. And a lot of times what people will say is, "Oh, you don't have to do a sizzle. Just write up a pitch deck, blah, blah, blah, blah." We're like, "No, you need to see me with people," because I think my superpower is that I genuinely like people. And by the way, I'm an executive producer on the show.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations.
Carla Hall:
Thank you. It's the first one. So I'm like, the best way to sell me is to show what I can do and to show me interacting with people. And so that's what the sizzle is all about. And so people knowing me got me in the room, but I still have to prove the concept because it's business.
Kerry Diamond:
So you said six weeks, were you on the road six weeks? It must have taken longer than that to do everything.
Carla Hall:
It did. So the six weeks was just developing-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, God.
Carla Hall:
... back and forth conversations of talking about the show and trying to get it into some format that we could sell. The show taped in 84 days. We were 84 days on the road, and so we-
Kerry Diamond:
Got to do some math in my head. Two and a half months basically. Right? A little longer.
Carla Hall:
And it wasn't all at once. The whole thing was like Tetris, because each show had at least three stops. So we did all of the domestic filming first, and that was started in September. So from September, with a break for Thanksgiving and Christmas, and then we went to the international portion in January. So we filmed from the beginning of January to the end of January. And so it was literally a Tetris of trying to figure out... So I had to keep all of the episodes in my head doing one through six, the first half and then one through six.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, so it's like filming a movie, not in the order-
Carla Hall:
Exactly.
Kerry Diamond:
... that the movie happens. Wow.
Carla Hall:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
I hope we got to keep all those frequent flyer miles.
Carla Hall:
Oh, yes. What? I'm global services. Thank you, United. Love you.
Kerry Diamond:
I'm a Delta girl. Okay, you were on the road so much. One of the first things, before we started rolling, I said to Carla, just based on what I know about Carla and the ice cream episode, she, of course, had amazing outfits. Amazing accessories, the whole nine yards. I said, "How the heck did you pack for this show?"
Carla Hall:
Well, it was crazy. So I worked with my stylist, Ashley Michelle. She was a godsend because again, we had to figure out where I was going, what the weather was going to be, and I packed my bags based on, it could be episode one, three and five where we were going, and that would be in one of those bags, that shrink wrap bags, space saver bags.
Kerry Diamond:
Everybody loves those now.
Carla Hall:
Yeah. So that's what I did for my entire wardrobe. I had 24 outfits. I had all my glasses. They were in this roll pack that I just-
Kerry Diamond:
All the glasses. You had so many glasses in this. You really should have an eyeglass company sponsoring this show.
Carla Hall:
I think so too.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah.
Carla Hall:
I think so.
Kerry Diamond:
Or Away.
Carla Hall:
And then when you saw me, I had a lot Rothy's because Rothy's get flat and then-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, were those the ballet... Because you have a ballet flat moment in Florence. Because we're both tall girls with big feet. So I do care about these things. We're both wearing our Converse right now. But I was like, "I have to ask about those ballet flats." So Rothy's, okay. Yeah, I get those Instagram ads all the time. I always wondered.
Carla Hall:
Yeah, I love them. I have probably about 20 pairs. And it's because it changes an outfit with little investment in space in your luggage, because they go flat.
Kerry Diamond:
And you are not that girl who just throws on a sweatshirt and calls it a day.
Carla Hall:
I do not.
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Carla Hall:
I have to feel it. Even if it's a sweatshirt, it has potlicker on it. What am I going to wear underneath? Am I going to wear a scarf? What's it going to go with?
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. Well, I appreciate all the effort you put into that. Congratulations on the show and being an executive producer. I know that's a really big deal.
Carla Hall:
Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
So we're all very proud.
Carla Hall:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
The last time you were on Radio Cherry Bombe was 2019, a whole lifetime ago. You had just interviewed Michelle Obama on her book tour. I saw her in Boston. I wish I had seen you interview her. But you interviewed her on the book tour in Cleveland, and I was curious, have you come down from that high yet?
Carla Hall:
When I think about it, I still get goosebumps. So Michelle and I will be... We're both turning 60 this year. It's a big year. She's part of my bucket list. She's part of my journey as I think somebody who is interested in people and giving interviews, and someone trusting me in that role. So it was huge for me. And no, I've not come down from that, in a word.
Kerry Diamond:
And you kind of manifested that, not kind of, you manifested that.
Carla Hall:
I manifested it. So before the book tour, and I'm like, "Wait, I wanted to come to this." I looked on the calendar, I put a date, the only date I could have done. I looked at her entire book tour, that was the date, and then they called me about doing that date. My assistant was like, "You're a witch." I'm like, "Yes, ma'am. I sure am. The best kind, the good witch. I am. I accept."
Kerry Diamond:
The First Lady. We love her. We love her book. But also the theme of the book, the central theme of the book is that we're always changing and evolving, and Carla you, more than so many people, absolutely embody that. And you just gave an interview to People Magazine, you talked about turning 60, and you are embracing that milestone in a very Carla Hall way. Can you tell us more?
Carla Hall:
I have been excited about every milestone birthday, forty, fifty, sixty is amazing. I looked up all the people who are turning 60, by the way.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, that's fun.
Carla Hall:
There may be a few. Michelle Obama, Kamala Harris, Vanessa Williams, Sandra Bullock. I'm sorry if you all don't want me to out you, but I'm sorry. Wanda Sykes, Cedric, the Entertainer, Rob Lowe. And there's so many, Keanu Reeves, Stephen Colbert. His birthday is the day after mine. Nike turns 60, Sally's Beauty Supply turns 60. I may have done a little bit of research.
Kerry Diamond:
What is the date?
Carla Hall:
May 12th, on May 12th.
Kerry Diamond:
May 12th. Okay. Put it on your calendars, everybody.
Carla Hall:
So everybody is saying Happy Birthday to me now, because I put the People Magazine thing in my social media on Instagram. So they're like "Happy Birthday." I'm accepting birthday wishes the entire year. I just want you all to know.
Kerry Diamond:
I didn't realize this was a five-month runway to the birthday.
Carla Hall:
Oh, yeah. I mean the whole year, even after May 12th, you can still wish me Happy Birthday. What you're saying is Happy 60th. I'm accepting it the entire year. And so one of the things that I realized, for me, I love theater. I was a theater kid, and the theater saved me from feeling bullied. And then I felt rejected by theater when I didn't get into Boston University. And then I did accounting. And then now at 60, I'm choosing it again, and I am working on a one woman show that's going to be live. And I'm like, "I'm going to do the thing at my time and not wait for someone to tell me that I can do a thing." Yes, I'm super excited.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you tell us any other details?
Carla Hall:
Yeah, so it's about my life. It's all of these vignettes. I don't know what the name of it, I don't really have a working title. It's just Carla Hall's one woman show. But I'm talking about black excellence and my perception of it. I'm talking about going gray. I'm talking about how I don't talk sexy. That's one of the vignettes. I don't talk sexy.
Kerry Diamond:
What does that mean?
Carla Hall:
My mother, growing up, she would have this very strong voice. And then when she would talk to a gentleman caller, one in particular, she would all of a sudden get this voice and like, "Oh, hi." It was soft and high-pitched. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, what happened to you?" I don't understand what happened. And I think in my head when I was going through this story, when I talked to my husband like, "Oh baby, you look so cute. Oh, baby." The same way that I'm talking to my doctor, it's going to be the way I talk to him in the bedroom, because I can't do it. It's like I'm giving my power away. And so-
Kerry Diamond:
Oh my God. Maybe you can call the show Hall Pass.
Carla Hall:
Oh yes, come on, Hall Pass. So going through these stories, it's actually helping me process a lot of things that are in my head or things that I need to heal. Another one, I was telling somebody about the Spook who sat by the door, and I was thinking about menopause, and this is the vignette about menopause, but the vagina that sat by the door. So yeah, the vagina who sat by the door, because I think people underestimate women, and it's an opportunity for us to take over the world. And people will not see us coming. And so that's me talking about menopause and all of that. And so it's really all of these different vignettes. One of the ones about black excellence, and I'm talking about how I felt like I was in this box and all of the things that I was doing, all of the things that I was supposed to do, working at the accounting firm, wearing the hose, boxed in a literal box, and then I get wrapped up in a scroll, all these things, and then I turn that box into a table.
And so that's when I start to do food, and then I make that table a stage. And so this is how my life has progressed. And so that's what the show is about. But more than anything, I want people to come. There's always, in every vignette, something for people to think about. I have a vignette about teaching people how to do selfies. And it's not necessarily how to take a selfie, but how to be yourself when your picture is taken, to see yourself and be okay with that and not change it. Put your photo out... If you want to put a filter, fine, but a filter isn't necessary. I think we have to teach the younger women to own their wrinkles, to own their wisdom, because that's why this 60th year is so big for me, it's owning it and talking about it and saying, yes, I'm 50 and I'm loud and proud and sexty.
Kerry Diamond:
Which I hadn't heard that word until I read your People Magazine article. But I do think you have had lessons for people at every age almost, because like you mentioned, you did accounting. Why did you go into accounting?
Carla Hall:
I liked my accounting teacher. It was as simple as that. At Hillsborough High School, I liked my accounting teacher. I wasn't doing theater. I'm a quick start. I make really quick decisions. I'm like, "I'm not doing acting. I guess I'll do accounting." Literally that was the only reason. And my brain works that way. So I am left brain, right brain. And so I love order. I love a spreadsheet, I love puzzles. Accounting's puzzles.
Kerry Diamond:
You are the only person I know who went from accounting to modeling.
Carla Hall:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
And in Paris. You just quit accounting and you moved to Paris.
Carla Hall:
Yeah. I hated... I didn't like accounting. So here I am in Tampa, Florida and I hated it, but I was also modeling because it was a way to meet people. I had done two fashion shows in college at Howard University, and when I got to Tampa Florida, somebody said, "Oh, have you ever modeled?" I'm like, "Well, I did in college." And they're like, "Oh, okay. Here I'm doing a fashion show." And I said, "Okay," because it was a way for me to meet people. I didn't know anybody in Tampa. And so after being there two years, I really hated my job.
My body was telling me, "Get out." So I met these girls who were going to Paris, and I'm like, "Huh, that sounds like fun. I think I'll do that too." And so I went to Paris, but while I was there, I had already started studying for the CPA exam. I was still studying for the CPA exam when I am doing the whole modeling thing, because I needed to check off and finish the thing that I started, and I wanted to finish on a high. So here I am trying to find an agency and also studying for the CPA exam.
Kerry Diamond:
Give us a piece of financial advice that you learned from your accounting years.
Carla Hall:
Oh my God. I don't know if I learned it from my accounting years, but one, I am a numbers person now still, but if you don't know it, go to someone who does. Truly. You need to have an accountant that you trust. Mine is Watch Her Prosper. That is the name of my accounting agency. Yes, Ruchi Pinniger. Watch Her Prosper. Just saying it is an affirmation. Right?
Kerry Diamond:
Is she taking new clients?
Carla Hall:
She is. She is.
Kerry Diamond:
We need it. More things to Google. I hope you all are keeping a list of all these things that we need to look up. Okay, so the modeling years, how did that work out?
Carla Hall:
I think it taught me to embrace who I am. Although in the moment, like my body and everything, what I didn't realize was I was a hanger, but the modeling years brought me to food. But I think it taught me... It wasn't about modeling. It was about quitting with joy one thing and moving to something else, and not being in a box. Because who does that? Who goes from accounting to modeling then to food?
Kerry Diamond:
Right, from accounting to modeling and then from modeling to food. Another interesting transition. But it was during the modeling years that you kind of discovered you like to cook.
Carla Hall:
Yes. Well, I'm competitive. Maybe it's a little unknown fact about me. If you haven't been around me, that's unknown. If you've been around me, you know that. I was at a brunch that this woman, her name is Elaine Evans, and by the way, I found out that Jessica Harris was the one who taught Elaine Evans to cook during an interview. I had no idea. Isn't that crazy?
Kerry Diamond:
Dr. Jessica B. Harris author of High on the Hog. Some of you may have heard her interview on Radio Cherry Bombe, and hopefully you've watched the show and read her book.
Carla Hall:
Yes, she has become such a great friend, and I love her to pieces. And I was at a Sunday brunch and all the models would come. And the models were saying, "Well, my mother makes macaroni and cheese like this, and my mother makes it like this." And here we are in Paris having soul food. And I was like, "Wait, what?" I had no idea how macaroni and cheese was made. I was 23 years old. I had no idea. And I was like, "How is it that I don't know?" And I couldn't contribute to the conversation. So I started going to the American bookstore and buying cookbooks, and then working out recipes. Cooking became an act of gratitude to give something back to the people who allowed me to sleep on their couches. And then I just kept doing it.
Kerry Diamond:
You went to culinary school at the age of 30?
Carla Hall:
Yes.
Kerry Diamond:
Is it ever too late to go to culinary school?
Carla Hall:
It is never too late. And the reason I went to culinary school, and I'm saying everyone doesn't need to go necessarily. Some people-
Kerry Diamond:
It's one of my questions.
Carla Hall:
Yeah. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
Because it's expensive.
Carla Hall:
It's very expensive. And some people start from the bottom, they work up and you don't need to go. I needed a jumpstart because I was 30 and I'd never done it before. And five years prior, I had sort of taught myself to cook and I had a lunch delivery service. And so I wanted to figure out the theory behind the experience that I had. And so that's why I went. And it was great. I think that if you want to feel comfortable and you want to jumpstart, you need to take classes, you need technique. And so it was great for that.
Kerry Diamond:
Then as most listeners know, you competed on “Top Chef” and became perhaps the most famous personality from the show. Certainly the most famous personality who didn't win “Top Chef.” More life lessons from Carla. You don't have to win to win.
Carla Hall:
You do not have to win to win. One of the things as a judge on the Bacon Championship that I take from that, I tell them, "This competition is not about you winning. It is about you saying yes and doing something that's really hard. And because of that, your life will change. The mapping of your brain changes when you bet on yourself and you do something hard and you surprise yourself." And I'm constantly coaching people, and that was the lesson for me. And when I was on “Top Chef” and I was standing before the judges, and I was so scared, I remember thinking that my heart was going to jump out of my chest, and I thought I was going to go home.
And I remember thinking, "What's the worst thing that could happen? That I would die here?" And I was like, I mean, it's so dramatic. I was like, "No one has ever died here." All of that was going on in my head, and all of a sudden I'm afraid to make eye contact with the judges. And that next thing I know, I'm looking at Padma like, "What you got? You send me home. You send me home." And then she told me later that she was so uncomfortable with me looking at her in her face, and they were trying to divert, and I'm like looking like eye contact to eye contact. And that's when I started doing better. I let go of the fear and I started cooking my food, and that's when I started winning those challenges.
Kerry Diamond:
It's so funny because I've had that in my head so many times since we talked in 2019. No one has died doing X. And I think it's a great exercise for people to do. No one has died pitching a story. No one has died doing this. And when I think of you saying, no one has died competing on “Top Chef,” what else do you have to worry about?
Carla Hall:
Yeah, at the end of the day, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid of rejection? If you get rejected, that means that that is a rock in the stream that sends you in another direction, but you still have that experience. There's no losing in life.
Kerry Diamond:
Speaking of advice, what is the best advice you've ever given or gotten?
Carla Hall:
Advice that I tell people, especially now, do something that scares you, and have the support around you to execute that. The best advice that I've gotten from my grandmother is, it is your job to be happy not to be rich. I've lived by that. And when I say happy, I'm not looking for a utopia all the time. I can have a down thing, but I want to be content. I want to do something that feeds my soul. I don't have to have fake happiness. If I'm crying, that's all right too. If I'm mad, that's okay too, but I want to be content and then everything else will follow.
Kerry Diamond:
I've been trying to ask this of all of our guests, but I'm curious if you are good at taking care of yourself mentally and physically, and if so, what do you do?
Carla Hall:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I put day off on my calendar. Everyone knows, and my assistant knows. We have a whole thing about we do not work on the weekends unless we have to. It is across the board. I put time with my husband on my calendar, because things, especially when I feel like I'm sort of bound to my calendar based on when everyone's throwing dates out and all of this. I do acupuncture, massages, some yoga. My husband's a yoga teacher and I don't do as much as I should. He does yoga and meditation. So just him talking to me is awesome.
Kerry Diamond:
That is a perk.
Carla Hall:
It is a perk. And I belong to a proactive place where I go for health that once a month I get two services. So I make sure it can be acupuncture or massage or IV therapy, but I am there at least twice a month doing those things.
Kerry Diamond:
Were you always that way?
Carla Hall:
I was always that way about facials from when I was younger. I have been getting facials since I was in my early twenties, and people are like, "Oh, your skin is great." I'm like, "I never go to bed with a dirty face." I use products. I recognize that my skin is changing and I'm okay with that, but get new products at the stage of my life where I am.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, Carla, we're going to do a speed round.
Carla Hall:
Okay, I'm ready.
Kerry Diamond:
What is your morning beverage?
Carla Hall:
Water.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite food film?
Carla Hall:
“Like Water For Chocolate.”
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. What's always in your fridge?
Carla Hall:
Condiments and pickles.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite smell?
Carla Hall:
I don't know. The first thing that came to me was roses. I don't even know if that's true, but it's a speed round.
Kerry Diamond:
Cookbook you love?
Carla Hall:
Anything by Shirley Corriher. “Cookwise,” “Bakewise,” I love her. Because I love the balance between science and the actual baking.
Kerry Diamond:
Favorite kitchen implement?
Carla Hall:
Microplane.
Kerry Diamond:
Footwear of choice in the kitchen?
Carla Hall:
Converse.
Kerry Diamond:
Snack food of choice? I feel like you like snacking.
Carla Hall:
I love snacking.
Kerry Diamond:
Yes. There's a lot of snacks on your Instagram. Those chocolate covered Ritz crackers. I was like, "Damn, where do I find a box of those?"
Carla Hall:
It'll be salty sweet. So my favorite snack of choice. It could be nuts with a little bit of cheese with cornichon pickles.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Last question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Carla Hall:
Jamie Oliver. I love Jamie Oliver. Hi Jamie. Hi. Hi.
Kerry Diamond:
Tell us, why Jamie.
Carla Hall:
So when I was in England, I was modeling. He was the first celebrity chef that I feel like I knew and connected with, and he was doing this thing about food ministry. I wasn't even in the food world. And in London, he was the first one. And I went to his restaurant. And ever since then, I started buying his cookbooks and everything. And then when he came on “The Chew,” I freaked out and I was literally talking to him where he was bending over backwards, because I was in his face. And after that, they said, "You cannot meet people for the first time on air. You have to meet them in their dressing room?"
Kerry Diamond:
Did they really?
Carla Hall:
They really did. They really did. And I just love him and I got to interview him for one of his books. And yes, so him.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, Carla Hall, you are an inspiration. Congratulations on “Chasing Flavor.” It's just lovely to see you again.
Carla Hall:
It's so great to see you Kerry. Thank you so much.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Our theme song is by the band TraLaLa. Joseph Hazan is the studio engineer for Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producer is Catherine Baker. Our associate producer is Jenna Sadhu. And our editorial assistant is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You are the Bombe.