Paola Velez Transcript
Jessie Sheehan:
Hi, peeps. You're listening to She's My Cherry Pie, the baking podcast from The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. I'm your host, Jessie Sheehan. I'm a baker, recipe developer, and author of four baking books, including “Salty, Cheesy, Herby, Crispy Snackable Bakes.” On each episode, I hang out with the sweetest bakers around and take a deep dive into their signature bakes.
Our show is on hiatus right now, but don't worry, we're busy whipping up a delicious new season for you, dropping in early May. In the meantime, we're re-airing some of our favorite episodes from the archives. Today we're re-airing my chat with Paola Velez. Paola is a pastry chef and the co-founder of Bakers Against Racism, the global bake sale that raised over $2.5 million for social justice causes. She's also the co-owner and co-chef of Providencia, a cocktail bar in Washington, D.C. Paola joins me to talk about her debut baking book, “Bodega Bakes: Recipes for Sweets and Treats Inspired by My Corner Store.” She describes the book as a love letter to both her Dominican heritage and her New York City roots. During our conversation, Paola shares stories from her childhood in the Bronx, frequent trips to her local bodega, visits to the Stella D'oro factory, and the nostalgic treats that shaped her love of baking. She also reveals that TV show that inspired her now famous pecan plantain sticky buns, and walks me through the recipe step by step. I had the best time chatting with Paola, and I know you're going to love this episode. Stay tuned. You can find today's recipe at cherrybombe.com.
Peeps, did you know that we have a free She's My Cherry Pie newsletter that coincides with each new episode? It comes out every Saturday morning and shares insights about the guest, their recipe, and other fun tidbits and baking news, like our cake of the week. To sign up, head to cherrybombe.com.substack.com or click the link in our show notes.
Let's chat with today's guest. Paola, so excited to have you on She's My Cherry Pie again and to talk plantain sticky buns with you and so much more.
Paola Velez:
Thank you for having me.
Jessie Sheehan:
The first time you were here, we did a deep dive into the recipe for a bake sale, as successful bake sales are 100% your jam, but this time I'm super excited to talk about your new book, what inspires your baking and your signature baking style. So you grew up between the Bronx and the Dominican Republic, and your book is a love letter to both. And I often ask guests whether there was much baking going on in their childhood homes and about early baking memories.
But what I want to ask you about is your neighborhood corner store or bodega and the Dominican and Puerto Rican pastries and desserts that you experienced there. So first, tell us about your relationship with your corner store/bodega growing up.
Paola Velez:
I had two. If you know the area that I grew up in, it's called Kingsbridge Heights. I grew up right by Sedgwick. So there's these stairs that go down to the general area where Rancho Park is. Or if you go up, you'll go closer to like Mosholu on the 4 Train. But right by my middle school, there was my bodega right next to the library. Very convenient if I must say so myself.
I loved going to the library and I loved going to the bodega. And then I had one that was down the steps going to Van Cortlandt Park. So when I wanted to go to the park, guess who had a bodega on the way to the park? Win-win situation. One of them was more Dominican. That one was the one that was close to my school. The other one is actually more Mexican.
So I had this diversity in my candy selection, and it was really fun. I was eating sour tamarind Mexican candies, and then I also was trying to stuff my face full of sour straws. And then I had Dominican mints or something that we call Menta Jol. It's actually like Halls and we eat it like candy, but it's different flavors. We have very berry halls or tutti frutti, lime, passion fruit, coconut.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you tell us about some of the specific baked goodie, desserty things like ice pops and tubes, Dominican fried dough, corn pudding, flan, chopped cheese, cosmic brownies, like my head was exploding. So many yummy treats.
Paola Velez:
Absolutely. So for me growing up, if you went to the Dominican bodega, you would se Bizcocho Dominicano, which is Dominican cake, which you can make in the book as well. You would see flan, tres leches, and then you would have your classic bodega snacks, honey buns, cosmic brownies, and then the chopped cheese. That is amazing.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can you remind us what chopped cheese is?
Paola Velez:
So chopped cheese is a type of beef. They put it on the plancha and they chop it up with these spatulas, metal spatulas that they have, and they put the secret seasoning. Every bodega has their unique secret seasoning. I think it's adobo, guys. And they put their secret seasoning and then they put melted cheese right on top.
They toast a hoagie roll and it's like nice and toasted on the inside, outside. And they layer that meat and cheese with some onion, peppers, and then they put the special sauce. I think it's Mayo ketchup. And you have this beautiful, luscious, cheesy, almost like a Hamburger Helper style of sandwich.
Jessie Sheehan:
I want you to tell us a little bit about the honey buns that you got at the bodega. Now, they play a big role in the recipe that we're going to talk about, but I would love you to tell us what we should picture when we think Little Debbie Honey Bun.
Paola Velez:
So a honey bun is very unique, right? And I think the more that I would look at it, the more that I would eat it, the more that I would think about like, oh, if I ever wanted to develop a honey bun versus a sticky bun, I have to fry the dough. That's what makes it so unique in its shape.
Jessie Sheehan:
What is the shape?
Paola Velez:
So think of a pinwheel, similar to a cinnamon roll or a sticky bun. But do you know how in a sticky bun or a cinnamon roll, it is flat? The dough itself is actually flat and it stays circular, but I guess you would call it like tubular. A honey bun in its shape when you look at it, it fries up in a pinwheel shape, but it is curved on top. When people try to make honey buns, they're always like, "Why is it not honey bunning?" I realized, oh, we haven't been treating a honey bun like a honey bun. We're supposed to treat it like a donut.
Jessie Sheehan:
Honey, genius, genius.
Paola Velez:
I mean, I just figured this one out. This year's the year of no gatekeeping. This book is all about giving recipes to everybody that wants to bake them, giving them these mother recipes that they can build upon, modify, change, put it in your restaurant.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I think you've said that in terms of flavor with a honey bun, we should picture something kind of sticky, slightly sweet. And I love this. You say it's just an all-round awesome creation. I love that.
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. The latest issue of Cherry Bombe magazine is all about love, and I think you're going to love the cover. It features Ilona, Olivia, and Adrianna Maher, the sister trio that has won everyone's hearts for their message of confidence and body positivity. The issue is full of joyful stories and recipes, and we know the world needs a little more love right now. So we hope you'll pick up a copy. Head to cherrybombe.com, or click the link in our show notes, or visit your favorite bookstore or culinary shop to get an issue.
Peeps, have you tuned into Radio Cherry Bombe? It's the flagship podcast from Cherry Bombe, hosted by founder Kerry Diamond. Every Monday, Kerry sits down with the most fascinating folks in food, drink, and hospitality, from icons to rising stars. Don't miss her conversations with Ina Garten, Alice Waters, Padma Lakshmi, “The Bear’s” Liza Colón-Zayas, and so many more. Listen to Radio Cherry Bombe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Now, back to our guest. Growing up in the Bronx, the bodega was 100% your happy place, full of color and flavor, but I also want you to tell the listeners about your local bakery, otherwise known as the Stella D'oro Factory.
Paola Velez:
Oh my goodness!
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh, Paola, what a childhood. I mean, whatever. I cannot believe I did not grow up with you, but tell me about this factory and tell me about eating fresh ladyfingers. Like I can't even imagine.
Paola Velez:
Yeah, so by Van Cortlandt Park near 231st and 240th, around there, there was this giant factory called Stella D'oro. And everybody knows Stella D'oro, but nobody realized that they were baking it fresh in the Bronx, New York City. When you saw the packaged goods, maybe that same week it was fresh out of the oven. And they had this light where they would let the community know, come and buy these freshly baked goods.
Maybe they were like the rejects of the pile. I don't know. It tasted amazing. So can you imagine, rainbow cookies? We had the Italian butter cookies, and then my favorite, the ladyfingers. They were just so light and airy and it was perfect. Sometimes it would be even warm.
Jessie Sheehan:
Should I picture them already packaged?
Paola Velez:
No.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh my gosh!
Paola Velez:
It's like a bakery, so it would be in a white bag. They put whatever you want in. And if you ordered enough, they gave you a cake box. Sometimes we think when we see things in the grocery store that they're not made. It's like in a process facility made by unidentified. But no, it was Dominican immigrants at the Stella D'oro factory. Now they're in Jersey.
So not to say that they're not close to the tri-state area, but I was very privileged to be able to get out of my elementary school, walk home with my mom and smell the Stella D'oro factory wafting through the air. It was a tremendous loss to that community to not have the factory there. But of course, everything comes to an end. And rents are high, and I get it.
Jessie Sheehan:
Your mom was trained as a biochemist in the Dominican Republic. Although when she came here, that was not what she did anymore. And she actually worked in, I think it was her cousins, Mary Ann's. But she had some ambivalence about you entering the food industry. She actually wanted you to be an engineer and was worrying about you struggling financially. Was there a lot of tension between you and your mom, or she made clear what she wanted from you, but was going to bless whatever you chose?
Paola Velez:
When I became a teenager, she really changed everything about how she approached me. I'll say now that I'm older and 30, right? Well, 30 something. The older that I get, the more that I'm understanding what it's like to be a 30-year-old and all of a sudden you have a baby and you have to figure out... One, figure out how to be American with this baby and then teach the baby how to be American. It's like a nightmare. You're just like, "I want to go home."
I have so much sympathy now for my mom and how she was just figuring out how to be an adult, how to navigate America, this world with a child. So once I started coming into my own as a person, teenage years maybe I was a little rambunctious, rebellious, I was emo. She was just kind of like, "Dude, I'm here for you." We became besties. We were attached at the hip. We still are. Luckily, my husband really likes her, and she loves my husband maybe more than me.
But when it came time for me to leave the house, I decided to leave the house actually right at 18. And it wasn't easy because I was really scared. I was really nervous to take such a big leap without my bestie. I couldn't bring her back to New York with me because she's married and she has a house, she has a life. But she was nervous that I wouldn't be treated fairly in the industry, especially 2008-2009.
The industry wasn't what it is today. And also, you have to remember, I was a teenager and I sound like a baby still. I look like a baby still. So you could even imagine what I looked like and sound like back then. I was very trusting of people. I wanted to help people at all times, and she's just like, "They're going to eat you alive, and I don't want you to go through that," because she grew up in that.
Once she came to the US, she was in the restaurant industry. My family owned nine restaurants in Manhattan and a few others in Port Chester and Connecticut. It's not that she didn't know what the restaurant industry was all about. If anything, she had a crash course in it. So she's just like, "I don't want my baby to go here."
Jessie Sheehan:
I totally get that. But despite that, you went to Le Cordon Bleu, which is amazing. But in the end, you didn't study pastry there. And in the end, you taught yourself pastry at YouTube University. Can you tell us about some of the videos that you watched?
Paola Velez:
So I view the world in the culinary industry, especially in pastry, how I view savory. So I had to figure out, so if I knew what the five mother sauces were, what does that equate to in pastry? How do I cream butter? How do I temper eggs? How do I temper chocolate? Oh, shudder! All of these things, that's what I would prompt the YouTube algorithm. I would ask it, how do I do this? And I treated YouTube as an SEO search engine way before we even knew what SEO was.
I realized that if I learned how to bake from one baker, maybe their recipe is particular to them and their style, and maybe their one cup isn't my one cup. I would realize that I needed to learn ratios instead of recipes, and I needed to understand, what makes a cookie a cookie. 3:2:1. That 3:2:1 ratio is what you need. You need sugar, flour, butter to make a general cookie.
And then if you want to add eggs, you want to add leavening agents, and you want to add flavor, that's stuff you can play around with. But you need to have the structure of what makes a cake a cake, what makes a cookie a cookie, what makes leavened bread a leavened bread.
That's how I taught myself, and then that's how I realized anyone could do what I did. And I use a lot of that ushering people into thinking outside of the box, thinking for themselves. Like yes, I'm giving you the recipe, but I'm giving you way more than that.
Jessie Sheehan:
So I want to talk about “Bodega Bakes” and the recipe that we're going to talk about today. I love that name so much, and I also just a quick shout out to your ingredient lists in the beginning of the book and what's in Paola's pantry. I love that you're okay with lemon extract, because so am I.
And I also love that you're okay with imitation vanilla, because so am I for nostalgia, et cetera. The recipe we're going to talk about is your plantain sticky bun. There are pecans in it, and it's kind of your signature. This recipe has the greatest origin story. Can you share how this recipe came to be with including your mom and Guy Fieri?
Paola Velez:
Especially that year, I would ask people what did they like to eat? What are their favorite pastries? And then I would ask them for another side memory. So I'm like, what's your favorite pastry, and what did you eat growing up in school? My mom knew that I liked to play this game, and we were watching Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives. She just randomly goes, "Oh, I..."
We were watching a Philadelphia stop that Guy was in. And she's like, "Oh, I love Philadelphia. I love Philadelphia sticky bun. I love it so much. It's so nice. I love Guy Fieri. So nice. Con el pelo spiky." And what I said was, with the hair that's spiky. I was like, oh. And I'm like, "Yeah, mom, but what else do you love?" So we were talking, watching the TV, and she's like, "I love plantain, platano."
And I'm like, oh. And that instantly was like, oh, my mom loves sweet plantains. But she loves to prepare a certain way, so she likes to take the sweet plantain right when it's at the cusp of going into the peel being completely dark, and that's when it's at its sweetest. The starch in the plantain have broken down the enzymes in the plantains from the sugar. It makes it really soft and gooey.
She cuts it open. She preheats the oven to 400 degrees. She sprinkles a little bit of brown sugar and a little bit of cinnamon. She just bakes it, and then she eats it. And that's her dessert. She just loves it. She doesn't have a hand for baking. I always try to teach her, and what I ended up doing was just when I go and see her, I restock her freezer so that she can just pop it in the oven from the freezer and bake it off.
Jessie Sheehan:
Can I just say that when I was little, one of my favorite things to make was to just cut a regular banana in half, put it in the toaster oven, butter, brown sugar, so friggin' good? So I love your mom. Just like I get that. And I just had a question. A plantain where the skin has gotten really dark and that's your indication that it's sweet. Would you ever eat that straight you, or you always have to cook it?
Paola Velez:
Yeah, because of the starch. Yeah. You have to cook the starch out, which works in the recipe. But that plus this Guy Fieri Philadelphia-style sticky bun, it was like light bulb moment. And I was like, oh my god! And I immediately shot up from our sofa and I ran to her kitchen. And I just started rummaging through all of her cubbies. And I knew I was going to find ripe plantains, so I found them.
I got the brown sugar, the yeast and all this stuff. And all of a sudden, I just made... she doesn't have a KitchenAid mixer. She doesn't have a hand mixer. I just finally bought her one, not the KitchenAid mixer, just the hand mixer. And I made the dough from scratch. So I made the brioche dough by hand, and I was kneading it with my palm.
Jessie Sheehan:
Was it a little bit inspired by honey buns? Like when you were thinking about the brioche dough, were you already thinking maybe a honey bun aspect?
Paola Velez:
So yes and no, because the honey bun aspect comes with a pan caramel. That sticky gooey pan caramel comes from that, instead of a typical sticky bun where you pour freshly made caramel already from wet method caramel with some cream butter. You pour it on top of the sticky bun. So it's gooey, but it never sets. The one for the plantain sticky buns is a pan caramel first.
I wanted to make it something that was foolproof, something that people don't have to worry or fuss about on the stove and they could just set it and forget it. You could even just melt the butter, add it to the sugar, it's all granulated, and the oven does all the work for you. Work smarter, not harder. I kind of had that idea and I started making the dough. I made the paste.
And I realized when you think of the sticky buns, cinnamon rolls, you think of butter and sugar and cinnamon in the filling. So I was like, hmm, can't the starch in the plantain double as an emulsifier or a binding agent for the sugar? And then can't I cut down and reduce the sugar in that filling because we have naturally occurring glucose in the plantain? It's a nerd moment, so if you'll indulge me.
What you're doing is you're emulating a little bit of that corn syrup and you're using a method of cooking it low and slow to break down the starch even more, break down the protein in the plantain, and then bring out that sugar. And then you're adding warming spices to bump up not the spices, but the plantain flavor.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it so much, honey. And also, I know I have read, and I love this about you, that you're like an OG nerd. And I love that your nerdiness is constantly playing a role in your dessert development. I love that. So for this particular recipe, we're going to begin by making that incredible plantain filling.
And I know that you stress this a lot, so I'm going to stress it too, extremely ripe plantains are really important for this recipe. And you actually prefer to use frozen plantains when you bake. It sounds like a lot of us will be able to find in the frozen fruit or frozen veggie section of the grocery store. Tell us a little bit about what's in the bag, how they're cut.
Paola Velez:
Most of them are cut at a diagonal, and then most of them are part-fried or fried already. So you have a little bit of that cooking process.
Jessie Sheehan:
Oh, the frozen ones are already a teeny bit cooked?
Paola Velez:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
Ah, good to know.
Paola Velez:
But what really is my favorite thing about the frozen ones, and you can do this if you don't believe in buying processed foods, you can freeze them yourself and replicate this at home. It's like that meme where an avocado is good one second, and you turn your head and all of a sudden the avocado is garbage. You know what I mean? So same thing with plantains. One second you're like, hmm, a beautifully ripe plantain. You turn your head and you're like, huh, what is that?
So I always freeze mine, and I freeze them from green, and then I go through the gamut, almost like the progression of fall of plantain, that foliage of colors. And I freeze them in each step because I have different applications for each process of ripening. What happens when you have your frozen plantains, the moisture or the water inside of the cell walls of the plantain expand. They freeze. They expand a bit. But then what happens when you defrost the or you cook them over heat, they melt.
So what you're doing internally is you're almost like The Fantastic Four where he's stretching everywhere. That same process is happening to the molecules in the plantain. You're stretching them out, bring them back in, and you're softening your plantain before you even start your cooking process. So it eliminates a lot of the cook time and it makes a smoother product.
Jessie Sheehan:
And if you can't find the frozen, you got to have black, black outside of the plantain. Because if it's not super ripe, it's just going to be too starchy and hard to spread.
Paola Velez:
Just put it in a brown paper bag and then just put it under your sink, you'll be fine.
Jessie Sheehan:
How long should I picture? Could it take a week?
Paola Velez:
Depending on the climate.
Jessie Sheehan:
So the first thing first with our filling is we're going to take a small saucepan over medium heat. We're going to combine the plantain, preferably frozen. You don't need to defrost it though, which is excellent. You're just putting it in frozen. A little bit of light brown sugar. Could we also use dark?
Paola Velez:
Yeah. What we really want, at least for me, is to keep the chain or the thread of the Caribbean through some molasses.
Jessie Sheehan:
Hence, the brown sugar. The recipe calls for light. If you only have dark, you can use that. We're going to have a little bit of water. We have some cinnamon. I wondered if there's a brand of spice that you like.
Paola Velez:
I really think that you should buy what's convenient for you. I know that a lot of people who are either listening to this or will buy the book, they come from similar upbringings as myself, and I don't want to limit who can participate in this. So literally it could be the dollar brand.
Jessie Sheehan:
Love it.
Paola Velez:
It doesn't matter.
Jessie Sheehan:
Cinnamon, vanilla, which can be imitation if you want or something fancy if you want. Do you have a particular brand that you love of vanilla?
Paola Velez:
I do love participating in both imitation and real in different applications. But what I like to do is I have either Mexican imitation vanilla or Dominican imitation vanilla because there's a certain flavor that is super nostalgic to my preference of desserts and sweets that I grew up with.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. We're going to add a little bit of ginger. Again, I'm assuming whatever is easiest for someone to get their hands on. Kosher salt, pepper, which is one of your signature. If you read the beginning of Paola's book and you read about the ingredients that she likes, you'll read about lemon extract and vanilla extract, and you'll also read about black pepper, which I love. We're going to add some allspice, some nutmeg. We're going to stir this occasionally. Again, it's over medium heat. What tools should I picture? Do we have a flexible spatula, wooden spoon?
Paola Velez:
I would use a firm spatula. I wouldn't use a wooden spoon because sometimes the wooden spoon if it's not coated correctly can absorb some of the moisture and you really need some of that moisture to break down the plantain itself. You want it to become a paste. And sometimes you might need to whip out an immersion blender or your blender or your Robot Coupe. Is that what it's called?
Jessie Sheehan:
Food processor. I know what you mean because that's what you use in professional kitchens.
Paola Velez:
You want more moisture because you could always evaporate it. You can always bring it back down, but you can't tell the plantain to be soft without the moisture.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to stir with a not very flexible spatula until the plantain softens, the liquid starts to thicken, mixture is very tender, eight to 10 minutes. Then we're going to transfer that mixture to a blender or food processor or Robot Coupe if you're in the know and blend until smooth about 30 seconds. Next, we're going to make our dough. In the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with our dough hook on low speed, we're going to stir together some warm whole milk, granulated sugar, active dry yeast. Does instant work? Some of us love, myself included, love instant yeast.
Paola Velez:
Yes, yes. And you can even use this recipe, give or take a couple of grams of flour with sourdough discard. It's so easy and so flexible. So this is what I would call one of my mother recipes. This recipe will teach you how to make the base of your laminated doughs. It will teach you how to make your rum baba. Really, you can even just make hamburger buns from it. So once you learn and master how to look and feel and touch this dough, you'll be able to do so much more.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to turn off the mixer and let the yeast come alive. Let it stand until it's frothy. Five to 10 minutes. Then we're going to add some all-purpose flour. And I have a question which is why not bread flour, but now I think I know the answer. Is it because you want it to be accessible and not everyone can find bread flour?
Paola Velez:
Yes. I also will say that it'll make a tougher dough. Bread flour has more protein in it. Bread flour, while it's good for certain applications, it's not good for everything. But I will say that I develop most, if not all of my recipes to have all-purpose flour, regular run-of-the-mill flour that you can find wherever. Because again, I want people to be able to just wake up one day. And what if you just have all-purpose flour? You can make anything in this book.
Jessie Sheehan:
Do you have a brand of all-purpose that you like?
Paola Velez:
King Arthur. It's convenient. I like it. I also like what they stand for. I like the product itself. It tastes good.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to add our flour. Very important to add the flour before we add our kosher salt, which we're about to add, because the salt after the all-purpose can harm that yeast that just woke up. The yeast is so sleepy. It's not going to want that salt on top of it.
Paola Velez:
It kills it off actually. It neutralizes it. So then your dough doesn't get as fluffy, as airy, and then you're going to have a compact dense.
Jessie Sheehan:
Such a great tip. We're going to mix all this, the all-purpose flour and the salt, into our wet mixture on medium low speed. We're going to mix until the flour's mostly incorporated. About one minute. We're going to stop and scrape our bowl as needed. What tool? Are you using a flexible bench scraper to scrape your bowl, your spatula?
Paola Velez:
Yeah. I think if you have a firm spatula, it doesn't have to be a fancy spatula, just a firm spatula that does not buckle when you apply pressure to it, that's fine. I get gifted a lot of stuff. So I have a million bench scrapers, a million bowl scrapers, a million spatulas. I would say that anything that can get in there, if you don't mind getting your hand a little dirty, you can do it with your hand too.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to add our eggs and we're going to mix the dough until it forms a ball. About one minute. Should we picture the dough wrapped around? First of all, we're still with the hook. We didn't switch over to a paddle, right?
Paola Velez:
Yeah, we're still with the hook.
Jessie Sheehan:
Is it wrapped around?
Paola Velez:
So what you're going to look for is for it to come a little bit off the sides of the bowl. Because of the way that the KitchenAid is structured, it will always rise up a little bit on the dough hook, even past that little large lip that the dough hook has. That's okay. You're fine. You can just scrape it down. But when you're mixing it, you're going to be looking for it to be shiny, smooth. And then when you touch it, it won't stick to you. By the time that you know that it won't stick to you, it's not sticking to the side of the bowl.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to add our unsalted softened butter. We're going to cut it into pieces, and you like to add it in sort of like four equal additions or like a quarter at a time. We're going to mix each time, each quarter until that butter's fully incorporated before adding our next addition. And now as you said, we're going to mix until the dough is smooth, no longer clings to the side of the bowls, no visible butter, about five minutes.
Cover a bowl with plastic wrap. Let it stand in a warm, draft-free place until the dough doubles in size. About one hour. Meanwhile, we're going to make our pan caramel. I thought this was interesting. We're going to grease a nine-inch square baking pan with unsalted butter. I'm so used to seeing round. Why not a round pan?
Paola Velez:
I think that the corners are the best part of any dessert. I try to think of things that if you make lasagna at home or if you make casseroles or... You know what I mean? Everybody makes that kind of stuff. So I think not everybody will have a round unless if you're a baker, like a dedicated baker. So you could even go to your bodega and buy an aluminum-disposable square, and I think everybody can find that.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So we're going to grease that pan with unsalted butter, so we're prepping our pan, in a medium saucepan over medium heat. We're going to cook some unsalted butter, some light brown sugar, some corn syrup, kosher salt, nutmeg, cinnamon, and vanilla. And remind us why we want the corn syrup here. What is the corn syrup going to do?
Paola Velez:
The corn syrup is an emulsifier that can prevent crystallization in the sugar. Sugar plus heat doesn't always equal caramel. Sugar plus heat sometimes equals our worst enemy, the ops, if I may, sugar crystals. So we have to always work in tandem to whatever our heating source, our pot, et cetera.
Almost like coddling the sugar, being like, "My sweet baby, please don't produce sugar crystals. I don't have enough time or money to do this over." So that's why the corn syrup is there. I would recommend for any caramel, for any sorbet, for anything that involves cooking sugar, add a little drop of corn syrup and it might solve all your problems.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it. So now we're going to stir this mixture occasionally again with a hard spatula. Would that be our tool? Until the butter melts, about two minutes, but the sugar should not be fully melted yet. How come?
Paola Velez:
Because we want to make sure that the sugar doesn't go past a certain temperature. So again, sugar is always going to react the same way during the caramelization process. Depending on the stage of the cooking of sugar, if you already go past that 200 degree, et cetera, you'll start going into the world of coloring your caramel. You have light ember, dark ember, burnt, et cetera.
So when we're baking our sticky bun, we want to make sure that we're not already starting with a leg in the mud. So we have to make sure that the sugar crystals won't caramelize in the oven. I mean, excuse me, won't crystallize in the oven. But at the same time, we want it to melt and caramelize in real time in the oven with your dough.
Jessie Sheehan:
Now we're going to remove the mixture from the heat, stir it, and then pour that caramel into our prepared baking pan, spreading it to coat the bottom evenly. Are we using an offset at this point to spread or really anything?
Paola Velez:
You can use the spatula.
Jessie Sheehan:
Great. And we don't have to worry if the caramel doesn't look smooth right now when we pour it into the pan because the heat of the oven is going to transform it into this smooth and silky texture. Now we're going to assemble our bun. So we're going to punch down our dough. Since our dough needs to rise for about an hour, might it still need a little more... Usually are you now going to wait for your dough at this point?
Paola Velez:
Yeah, I'm waiting for the dough. I'm in D.C. now, so the humidity in D.C. is like you could give it 20, 30 minutes and it's rocking and rolling, and then an hour later it is fermenting. But I will say that when you're looking for indicators to know if your dough is done, I like to go up to the dough, usually by then if I'm controlling it in a nice cool temperate space, the dough itself when it's wrapped especially with plastic wrap, will form this air bubble.
And the dough itself is trying to push up against the plastic wrap, trying to break free. And I like to spank it. I spank it. And then if it falls down immediately without maintaining some of that shape, I know it's ready. I know it's ready to go. So I tap it and then it deflates, and then I know I can punch it down now and roll it out and continue the process.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. So we're going to turn it out after we've spanked it. We're going to turn it out onto a lightly floured work surface and using a floured pin. Do you have a preference on shape of pin and on brand?
Paola Velez:
So I would say that whatever you want to use is your preferred. So sometimes depending on the size of the batch, I'll use actually like a dumpling rolling pin, because I have really small hands.
Jessie Sheehan:
Describe a dumpling rolling pin for those of us that don't know.
Paola Velez:
I would say it's like a foot long and then maybe like an inch in its circumference.
Jessie Sheehan:
And it's straight, right? It's not tapered in.
Paola Velez:
It's not tapered in. It's straight. And usually you use it to make a really thin dumpling dough. I love to use it because I have complete dominance over it. I can maneuver it. I can tell the dough where to go, how to go, when to go. And usually with bigger rolling pins, if it's a marble rolling pin, it's too heavy and you might have uneven spreading or rolling. But also I feel like it brings me close enough to the dough that I can touch it and I can feel and I can sense when it's like an eighth of an inch, 16th, if it's a fourth. You can touch the dough and know between your fingers.
Jessie Sheehan:
And I thought this was interesting, we're going to roll it out to a 10-inch square. I feel like so frequently when I'm making sticky buns or cinnamon rolls, I'm looking for a rectangle. How come you like a square?
Paola Velez:
Because I'm controlling the width of the actual bun itself. So when you roll it, if you have a rectangle, you don't start from the shortest end in. And if you did, you'd have monster mega buns. So I'm trying to get almost like even rolling. I don't want to have small pieces at the end tapered. I want it all to be very similar in size because it's only nine. So I have to give you the directions precisely because you don't have any room to make eight.
Jessie Sheehan:
I think that's so smart. So in other words, the square produces more uniform-sized buns than the rectangle.
Paola Velez:
And it also gives you that consistent pinwheel shape. So they're uniform in rising, they're uniform in baking, and then they're uniform when you eat it.
Jessie Sheehan:
So now we're going to use an offset spatula, or I love this tip, just the back of a spoon to spread the plantain filling over the dough all the way to the edges. Then we're going to sprinkle evenly with chopped pecans. Is it better if we toast the pecans? Do you like to toast them? Does it matter?
Paola Velez:
It doesn't really matter. I would say I wouldn't use very large pieces. While the dough itself is a fortified dough, it's a really rich dough, which is why I'm suggesting that you could use the back of the spoon because it won't rip. It won't break apart. It's very elastic, very fortified. What I want is not big, chunky, chunky pieces because it'll rip through the dough when you're trying to portion your sticky buns.
Jessie Sheehan:
They're fairly finely chopped, and we are sprinkling evenly with those pecans. So there aren't pecans in the sauce. There are pecans in the buns.
Paola Velez:
Yes. But I would say that if you have any extra, let's say if you were overzealous with chopping your pecans and you're like, what do I do? It really bakes. You don't like nuts for nuts. So this pan caramel when it's baked with nuts turns into that nuts for nuts. The caramel encases the nut in the sticky bun itself. It's really great. I mean, try it if you have time.
Jessie Sheehan:
So we're going to roll up the dough to form a log and fairly tightly because we want all of those layers. And then we're going to cut crosswise into nine even slices. Question on that. Do you like to cut with a serrated knife, a gentle sawing motion, dental floss?
Paola Velez:
I don't use dental floss, not because I think it's wrong or anything, I just don't. I'm really confident in my serrated knife skills. I will say that I do a gentle saw with a serrated knife. But if you don't have a serrated knife or if you only have dental floss or a kitchen knife, use whatever you got. I don't know if I mentioned it in the book or if it made the cut, but when you're rolling, to get a tight even roll, I would suggest starting at your edge closest to you.
And what you're going to do is you're going to fold and press your dough onto itself in maybe a centimeter. You're going to fold and press, and you're going to keep pressing, and folding and pressing, folding and pressing, folding and pressing, until your dough rolls up to the point that you can rock it. And then you go.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. That's a great tip. That is at times tricky because you don't want those swirls or the curls to be huge. You want them to be tight. So that's really helpful that tiny, tiny centimeter press until you can... I love that. We're going to arrange the slices cut side up in the prepared baking pan.
It's totally okay if it's touching. Cover with a clean kitchen towel. Let rise in a warm spot until they double in size. About 20 minutes. We're preheating to 350. Now we're going to line a rimmed baking sheet with aluminum foil I'm assuming because the buns can be a little drippy?
Paola Velez:
So what's going to happen in this process, and I would say my suggestion to the bakers that are listening to this podcast is to wear long sleeves, get oven mitts, literally protect yourself. Caramel is still caramel regardless if we cook it on the stove or make pan caramel. What I would say this process is so that when you flip it over, I always try to... If I have a nine by nine square pan, I'm going to have a nine by 13 baking sheet that has a lip.
So it has to come up, because caramel can spread. It can go all over the place. So what I do is once these sticky buns have come out clean, if you want to take the temperature of the internal temp, I would suggest that, so that if you don't know if it's done or if maybe your oven heats a little bit hotter and the coil elements to the top of the oven. Sometimes things happen with the dough.
You'll take out your sticky buns. You'll put it on the kitchen towel, et cetera. And then you're going to take that foil lined sheet tray and place it on top of your sticky buns and then firmly press down. And then you're going to try to slide off the sheet tray and the hot pan. So remember, you're going to use all protective gear. You're going to use long sleeves, your oven mitt, anything that will protect you from the heat and from caramel.
And you're going to slide it off of your kitchen counter while firmly pressing down on both ends. With even pressure, you're going to flip. And then it prevents the sticky buns... One, you can't take them out of the pan when they're hot because a hot brioche will break apart. But two, if you leave it in your pan, they stick to the pan when the caramel cools down.
Jessie Sheehan:
We're going to take the buns. We're going to place them in the oven. Bake for 30 to 35 minutes until the buns are like light brown. Instant read thermometer insert it into the middle of the bun, reads about 165, which I thought was interesting, because I always think that with yeasted dough like this, it should be like 190, 200. Is 165 just like a Paola thing? Like you find for this bun that's the right temp?
Paola Velez:
Yeah, I find that there's carry-over cook. So I always go to 165. Because when we're rolling it out that thin in the method that I use, you're creating really small even layers. And the small layers can overcook and that makes your dough dry. So you're going to do 165 because then you know that your gooey insides have cooked to the right temperature that will help it carry over cook to the right...
Jessie Sheehan:
I got you. Actually, you can test the buns by poking the dough with a toothpick. Try not to get it in the filling. And if it's doughy, keep baking. Now we're going to remove from the oven. Now we're going to put the tinfoil lined baking sheet on top and flip them over.
Paola Velez:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
I got you. And then carefully invert the buns and serve warm. I was hoping you would just tell us about a couple of other amazing recipes from the book. Talk to me about bodega brownie whoopie pies.
Paola Velez:
Yeah. So I find that now cosmic brownies don't taste the same as they used to. Maybe I'm just older and my palate changed. But what I felt when I was a kid eating a cosmic brownie, I wanted that soft texture, that Noir cocoa powder, that filling of ganache in the center, this drizzle of chocolate, and then the candy coated chocolate chippies. It's just so fun. Nobody ever thinks of whoopie pies as the ultimate vessel for cake and cookie formulation.
But I think a whoopie pie can get every single aspect of what you want from a cookie, a cake, anything into one bite. I prefer myself to make cookies, and I don't always make cake. I do make cake, but I don't always make cake because I want to wow you in one bite. And sometimes to eat a cake, you have to eat a few bites to then be like, "Hmm, I love this cake."
Jessie Sheehan:
So is it almost like the whoopie pie is like the brownie part and then the filling is like the ganache?
Paola Velez:
Yeah.
Jessie Sheehan:
I have to say I love whoopie. I'm like a whoopie pie lover from way back because I love frosting, and I think it is the perfect vehicle for the right ratio of cake to frosting. So I'm with you. Whoopie pies for life. I also loved the guava and cheese turnovers because you write a little bit about your obsession or the obsession with guava and cheese.
Paola Velez:
Yes.
Jessie Sheehan:
Kind of like the guava and cheese cookies.
Paola Velez:
Yeah, yeah. It's really fun. That's how we have our snack. It's our desserts. In the middle of the day, if I invite you over to my house, I might make you a cup of coffee. And not might, I will make you a cup of coffee. I will serve a little bit of cheese and guava on a plate. It's basically our version of our charcuterie board, but we don't have all the meats and Maille gherkins. It's just cheese and guava.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. And for your turnovers, you're just sticking them in a flaky pastry.
Paola Velez:
I teach people how to make it from scratch, from hand. I make all of my laminated doughs from scratch. If people want to make a croissant dough using this method, I would sub in the sticky bun brioche recipe with this method of lamination.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love it. And now finally, this is a nod to Stella D'oro, which we already discussed, but tell us about the black and white cookie Charlotte.
Paola Velez:
Yes. I think Charlottes kind of went out of style.
Jessie Sheehan:
Tell people what a Charlotte is in case they don't know.
Paola Velez:
So a Charlotte, essentially it's a ladyfinger lined pudding cake. It's beautiful. It's fun. It's pudding. I mean, come on, pudding is amazing. Ladyfingers are amazing. Charlottes are amazing. That's my two cents on Charlottes. But what I do is I layer this bi-color pastry cream in there. It's a pastry cream-esque because I want it to be firm enough to cut and slice the Charlotte, but it's still soft. So by the time that you eat it, the mouth feel will melt in your mouth just like a cup of pudding, which you can get out of the bodega.
Jessie Sheehan:
I love that. I love that. And you want people to use Stella D'oro or ladyfingers when they make this, of course.
Paola Velez:
But it's okay if you can't find them.
Jessie Sheehan:
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Paola, and I just want to say that you are my cherry pie.
Paola Velez:
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Jessie Sheehan:
That's it for today's show. Don't forget to follow She's My Cherry Pie on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen and tell your pals about us. You can find today's recipe at cherrybombe.com. She's My Cherry Pie is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our producers are Kerry Diamond, Catherine Baker, and Jenna Sadhu. Thank you so much for listening to She's My Cherry Pie and happy baking.