Rosie Kellett Transcript
Kerry Diamond:
Hi, everyone. You are listening to Radio Cherry Bombe, and I'm your host, Kerry Diamond, coming to you from Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. Today's guest is Rosie Kellett, author of “In For Dinner: 101 Delicious, Affordable Recipes to Share.” Rosie, who lives in London and stopped by the studio for a chat when she was in New York for the launch of her book, is an expert in communal living and communal cooking. She and her housemates pool their money and cook for each other throughout the week. They also have specific chores and kitchen assignments. Rosie makes sure the fridge is always in order, another housemate does the budgeting and grocery shopping, and so on. They have rules, of course. And Rosie and her housemates are all dedicated to making the system work. Her debut cookbook details the recipes her housemates love and some of the stories behind their unique way of living. Rosie and I talk all about communal life, her career as a young playwright, her time as a PA for actor Samantha Morton, and the goals she set for herself that led to her social media success. I had a blast talking to Rosie, so stay tuned.
Today's show is presented by Square. What if your favorite sports bar only showed women's sports? That's the big idea our friend Jenny Nguyen turned into reality in 2022 with The Sports Bra in Portland, Oregon. Thousands of fans showed up on opening day, and within eight months, The Sports Bra had served fans from all over the country and brought in nearly $1 million in revenue. But behind the scenes, the tech couldn't keep up. Their point of sale system kept crashing during game days right when the bar was packed with so many excited fans. That's where Square came in. Square is the restaurant point of sale that helps you manage it all from one place: payments, staff, customers, insights, and more. Now, The Sports Bra runs on Square. From faster service to better reporting, the team finally has a system that works as hard as they do. And with Square's help, Jenny is planning to bring The Sports Bra to cities across the country. When your business is growing, you need a point of sale tool that's on your team like Square. Go to square.com/big to see how Square can help you.
A little housekeeping before we get to Rosie. The Italy issue of our print magazine is finally here, and it is so beautiful. You print girlies will love it. Thank you to our guest editor, Fiorella Valdesolo, for doing such a great job. You can find a copy at cherrybombe.com or from your favorite bookstore or culinary shop. We also have a great Italy-inspired gift guide on our website. What else? I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, but Cherry Bombe has a Substack. If you're a Substack lover, I know I am, be sure to check it out and subscribe. You can subscribe for free or become a monthly or annual paid subscriber. I'll be contributing some essays in the weeks ahead, so be on the lookout for that. I'll put the links for all of this in our show notes.
Now let's check in with today's guest. Rosie Kellett, welcome to Radio Cherry Bombe.
Rosie Kellett:
Thank you so much for having me.
Kerry Diamond:
I am so excited that you're here. I literally have a million questions for you, so I've got to rein it in.
Rosie Kellett:
Great. I'm ready.
Kerry Diamond:
First, I have to ask you... We're actually in person, which is amazing, because you live in London. You're here for the launch of your book. How are you finding New York?
Rosie Kellett:
I love it. I love it so much. We got in yesterday afternoon from Edinburgh. I had an event in Edinburgh, and then we flew here. And it was super, super smooth. And we actually had the most New York crazy evening last night. My boyfriend's with me, he's never been to the U.S. before anywhere, so he's very lucky because we're doing New York, L.A., and San Francisco, and I'm like, "What a jammy little trip for you." But anyway, we got in, and my friend Celeste works at Per Se, Thomas Keller's restaurant. And I was like, "Oh, Celeste, I'd love to see you while I'm here." She was like, "Yeah, you should pop by for a glass of champagne." And I was like, "Absolutely."
We go to the restaurant, she's not there yet, and they usher us to this table. And it's that amazing table with the view of the Central Park and everything. And me and my boyfriend were like, "Well, this is quite nice." And then one of her colleagues comes over, and he gives us some champagne, and we're like, "Thank you so much." And then they were like, "Yeah, Chef has prepared a few snacks." And we were like, "Oh, that's really sweet. We're not eating, but that's so kind of you," because I was like, "We can't afford to eat that." And they were like, "No, we know, but we've prepared something anyway."
Anyway, what followed was a seven-course tasting. The dessert course alone had eight dishes in it. And then Celeste was like, "We'd like to give you a tour of the kitchens." And we had this whole tour of the kitchens. And they printed the menu for us, and they wrote “In For Dinner” at the top. I felt like crying at the end of it. They sent us home with some chocolates. And it was honestly like a fever dream. And me and Jack just walked back to the hotel blinking. He's also a chef, and for him it was mental. Yeah, New York so far has been a dream.
Kerry Diamond:
I wish we could greet all visitors that way with a lovely little tasting menu and some champagne at Per Se. Well, I'm happy you had a nice soft landing when you got here.
Rosie Kellett:
Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
I have to ask, are you the Slutty Cheff?
Rosie Kellett:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Because she came to New York with her boyfriend. I can't remember if it was her or the boyfriend who had never been to New York.
Rosie Kellett:
I know. I am not the Slutty Cheff, but she is an angel. I love her book. Her book is brilliant.
Kerry Diamond:
Do you know her?
Rosie Kellett:
We're internet friends.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. You said she's an angel, so I was like, all right. Well, just establishing that's not you.
Rosie Kellett:
It's not me.
Kerry Diamond:
But I did love that book as much as I love your book, which we're going to talk about in a sec. What else is on your list to do while you're here?
Rosie Kellett:
Well, tomorrow I'm on “The Today Show,” which is very exciting. I've got a very early start tomorrow morning.
Kerry Diamond:
Congratulations. What are you wearing?
Rosie Kellett:
Thank you. Great question. This honestly nearly broke me because I'm like-
Kerry Diamond:
Emotionally and financially.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Well, I'm very lucky. My housemate, Virginia, has great taste. She's Italian; they all have great taste.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I read a lot about her.
Rosie Kellett:
She's phenomenal and she loves clothes and she loves styling people. And ahead of this tour, I was freaking out about clothing in general for all the different events. And eventually, I was like, "Oh, I just hire Virginia." And so I was like, "Babe, do you want to just style me, actually, and plan everything and photograph everything and just tell me what to wear?" She's done this incredible job. And she's got all my outfits, and I just have to put them on, which is such a relief.
We've gone pretty low-key tomorrow. I'm going to wear jeans and a tank top, which I will feel comfortable in, which means I'll probably do a better job in. I was like, "It can't show any visible sweat. I'm going to be stressing. I don't want anything that's going to have a sweat mark in it." You know that classic thing with TV where they're like, no black, no white, no patterns? That's my entire wardrobe. I was like, "I don't know what else I'm going to do." Anyway, she figured it out, which is exciting. That's tomorrow. And then I'm doing a video with Food52, and then I have an event in the evening at Archestratus Books + Foods with Justine Doiron, who's lovely and I had coffee with this morning, so I'm excited about that. And then the following morning, we fly to L.A. very early.
Kerry Diamond:
I love it. We love Justine. That's great. Sounds like you have wonderful friends.
Rosie Kellett:
Well, you know what? I respect Justine so much. We were not friends, I was just a fan of hers, frankly. And I was chatting to my publisher, and they were like, "Who would you like? Do you have any friends who you want to do this?" I was like, "I don't know Justine, but I think she sounds great. And can we ask?" Because we have the same publisher. And so they asked her. And she's just very game and generous. And she was like, "Yeah, I'll do that." And then we had coffee. And she's the best. And I just think what a doll. She's a busy lady. And she didn't know me until today.
Kerry Diamond:
She's also a very thoughtful person, so that's good.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah, very.
Kerry Diamond:
And your stylist friend and your friend who's at Per Se.
Rosie Kellett:
I know.
Kerry Diamond:
We're going to talk about your friends and flatmates pretty soon too. Well, “The Today Show” is going to love you for sure, because you just have so many fantastic tips to share with the world, and we're going to get to some of those. Okay, then you've got L.A. and San Francisco. Similar itineraries, plans for those cities?
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah, L.A. I am doing KTLA in the morning, doing a little demo. And then most excitingly, this is a thing I'm living for, I'm going to cook a supper club with my friend Chloe Walsh, who on Instagram she's Chloe Cooks. And she's a food stylist and a cook and a supper club host. And she's also a Brit. And we'd become friends on the internet. And then she was in London in spring, and we went for dinner. And she was like, "You're coming to L.A. We have to do a supper." I'm doing that on Friday, which is going to be great. I used to live in L.A., but that was 14 years ago," so going back to farmer's markets and being there on my own terms, it's going to feel very full circle for me. Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
The best farmer's markets.
Rosie Kellett:
Oh, just the best. Yeah. And what's funny is when I was there as a teenager, I grew up in this teeny, tiny village in Derbyshire, which it's really a speck on the landscape of England. And went to this farmer's market, and we're really jet-lagged. And there was a goat milk farmer with these baby goats, but it was all very cute. And I had this little girl I was nannying with me. We were like, "Oh, the goats," and we went over. And his accent was just really familiar, and I was like, "Where are you from?" And he was from my village.
Kerry Diamond:
No.
Rosie Kellett:
And he was referencing the teeny, tiny cafe that's in the village that I used to work in. And we knew all the same people. And I was like, "This is bizarre that I'm 11,000 miles away from home and there's someone here from Monyash of all places."
Kerry Diamond:
We'll be right back with today's guest. Cherry Bombe's Jubilee conference is headed to Los Angeles in just a few weeks. It's taking place Sunday, September 28th at Hudson Loft in downtown L.A. It'll be a full day of inspiring conversations, delicious food and drink, and incredible community. Since 2014, this one-of-a-kind gathering has celebrated the voices and talents of women across the worlds of food, drink, restaurants, and hospitality. Now it's L.A.'s turn, and we can't wait to give the city the love it deserves. And guess who will be on stage. Melissa King, Courtney Storer, Molly Baz, Suzanne Goin, Bricia Lopez, and Aran Goyoaga will all be there, just to name a few. Tickets are sold out, but you can join the waitlist at cherrybombe.com. We often have a few spots open up. I can't wait to see all of you in L.A.
You've had so many lives. You did theater writing and acting. Tell us about that part of your life.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Well, it was a chunk, it was a decade. I'd grown up super rurally, always wanted to be an actor. I actually just think I wanted to be a performer. I'd done a lot. I played violin from the age of four. Both my parents are musicians. They have four children. We all had to play an instrument. And the rule was once you get your grade eight, you can quit. And I don't know if the system's the same in the U.S., but grade eight's the last grade, so it's at least 10 years of playing, basically. I'd done that. And I was in orchestra and quartet. And then I was in the choir, and I loved to sing. And then I started doing ballet, and I loved to dance. Then I got into musical theater, and I was a real musical theater kid.
And then I think I thought, no, I just want to be an actor; that's a bit cooler. And so I chased that for a bit. And I met an actress who actually bought the house I grew up in, and we moved 10 minutes down the road. And we became friends. And she was like, "Well, if you want to be an actor, why don't you come and why work for me for a year and see what it's really like and see if you still want to do it?" And I was like, "Yeah, great." I moved to L.A. with her.
Kerry Diamond:
You were her PA?
Rosie Kellett:
I was her PA, which involved being her driver, cook, nanny. Bit of everything.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. I'm dying to ask you who, but I guess you can't say.
Rosie Kellett:
No, I can. I've talked about it. Yeah, it's fine. We are good friends. She's called Samantha Morton.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, sure. Okay, very cool.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah, she's amazing. And I've since worked for her again over the last 10 years, but this was the first stint when I was a young girl, really. Yeah, I did that. And then when I finished-
Kerry Diamond:
Did it cure you of the acting bug?
Rosie Kellett:
Nope. I was like, "Yeah, let's go." I guess also, I was seeing this very lofty version of being an actor. She was at the time shooting a couple of films in the U.S. and we did a bit of filming in Shanghai. And it was a very glitzy, successful version of being an actor. But it very much gave me the reality of it. Because I was like, "Oh yeah, the days are long and the work is hard." And it doesn't matter how successful you are or where you sit on the call sheet, you work really, really hard. I was under no illusions. And we moved to London when I was 20, I got an agent, I started working in theater, and then I started writing theater. And I mostly did that, really. I wrote plays.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, I was going to ask what that means, because I've heard you talk about that before and I wasn't sure what theater writing means. I know TV shows have writers' rooms. What's theater writing?
Rosie Kellett:
It's very lonely. You write a play on your own in your bedroom or wherever. And then generally speaking, you would maybe work with a dramaturge, which is kind of the equivalent of a script editor in the TV film space.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. You were a playwright?
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, I was a playwright. Then you basically try and get the play put on, which means it would be commissioned by a theater. And a producer would get involved, and then your play would be in a theater. And sometimes if you're more established, it will be the other way around. You wouldn't need to write the entire thing, you would pitch an idea to a theater and they'd be like, "Yeah, let's commission that," and then you write it. But I wasn't that successful. I was in the stage of you write the whole play and you submit it for competitions and you send it to your agent. And your agent would be like, "Yeah, I think it needs some tweaks," or whatever.
And I did that for a long time. And I was also auditioning for shows and as an actor still, but doing more writing. And I reckon in the 10 years I was doing that, for the last five I was completely miserable. And it took a very long time to accept that this was not actually making me very happy anymore. It didn't really matter that I wasn't making any money, I just was miserable. And I didn't want to do it, but I was forcing myself to sit at the desk and churn out these plays. And at the time, I was 29 and I was dating a guy who was a musician. Wasn't even that successful, but he would get out of bed in the morning and skip to the studio to write another sad song. And I just thought, I want to feel that way about what I do and I do not. And so I had to really reckon with myself and be like, "What does set my heart on fire? Why do I get up in the morning?" And it was obvious to everybody else but me that it was food.
And then I realized, I was like, it's feeding people. But I'd resisted it for so long because I thought, no, that's what I do for joy. That's where I find solace. If I turn it into my career and I commodify it, maybe I'll lose the thing that I love so much about it. And I was quite scared of that, because I was like, "No, no, no, that's the one last thing I've got." But it was-
Kerry Diamond:
Were you in the famous warehouse that you talk about?
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
At that point, you were in the warehouse.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, I'd been there for three years at that point.
Kerry Diamond:
And the communal living and cooking was in full effect?
Rosie Kellett:
Yes. It had always been in full effect. It had been in full effect from the beginning of the warehouse existing. I've now learned, because after I grew following on the internet, lots of people who used to live in the building had found the videos and been like, "Oh my God, that's where I used to live." And lots of them have messaged me and given me more information. And so I learned that it started in 2011 or something, and the first person who set it up had lived in Spain in a similar setup and then basically introduced it to the building. It had always been the system. And when I got there in 2020, there was 12 people living there at the time. It changed a lot. But that was the system when I got there. And they were like, "This is what we do. If you're not interested, then-"
Kerry Diamond:
Don't move in.
Rosie Kellett:
"... don't live here."
Kerry Diamond:
We're going to talk about the system in just a second, but since you're talking about transitioning from a job you didn't love to one you did, I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there listening right now who are like, "I don't like my job, and I would love to transition to a job in food." If you're waiting for a sign, folks, here's your sign. How did you do it?
Rosie Kellett:
Well, I'd worked in food as my rent money job for 10 years. And I feel like I'd seen a lot of the industry. And part of the reason I was resistant about changing was I couldn't see a career I wanted. Even in the women and men, but mostly the women that I was looking up to that were the most successful, I thought, I don't want your life, so why would I do it? I had this overwhelming urge to do something different, so I had to think, I need to create for myself the thing that I want to do.
And so I did this private promise to myself. When I decided to make the change, and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to dedicate my life to food now." I realized I'm 30, and if I want to get anywhere quickly, I'm going to have to share things on the internet. But that does make me want to poke my eye out with a rusty nail. The idea of putting my face and my voice and talking to the internet, it was all so cringe. And I didn't know how to do it either. And I was really lucky, my housemates are a lot younger than me, and I asked them for advice, and they taught me how to make a TikTok and an Instagram. And they were really sweet, actually. But I made this very private promise to do three reels a week and TikTok every day for a few months and see what happened. Hellish.
And I also wrote a list. This was when I was deciding to do it. I wrote in this notebook the vision. And then in the vision, there was this list. And it was like start a supper club, start a Substack, write a cookbook, share recipes online. And I can't remember. I think that may have been it. But it was goals. I was like, "If I can achieve any of those things, that will be a start." And they are things I want. Because I loved writing, I knew I loved writing, I just thought theater isn't it, so I need to find a different way of writing. And Substack was, at that time, this is about two years ago, it was already on the up. It almost felt too late, actually, to start a Substack. I already had the feeling of, ooh, maybe I've missed the boat on this one because it's going to get flooded. But I did it anyway.
And so I guess I just had this unwavering... I think because I already felt I'd failed. I'd got onto my 30th birthday, and I was like, "Cool. You gave it a good shot, but you failed. You didn't achieve anything, and you're just going to live a life now that is not interesting. And just try and be happy." That was-
Kerry Diamond:
You were tough on yourself.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, yeah, really tough. It sounds so mad now. But yeah, brutal on myself. And I just thought, I need to be happy, so what will make me happy? And I thought, if I can write about food every week and 10 people read it, that will be nice. And if I can do a supper club four times a year and people come and eat my food, that would be good. I just took it right back to bare bones of what do I want from life? And how can I just live a little bit happier? Rather than being like, "I want to get to where she's at. And how did she do it?" And I didn't want to replicate anything I could see because I didn't like anything I could see.
Kerry Diamond:
Let's talk about the communal living and how that ties in with your wonderful cookbook, “In For Dinner,” and food and all these great recipes. You move into this group living situation, we'll call it, in a place called the warehouse. And you had how many roommates?
Rosie Kellett:
When I first moved in, it was many, but it became... For the majority of the time, there was seven of us.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. You all contributed, over time, it was $25, $30 per week. And from that, you'd buy all your groceries, all the household goods that you needed, and you would take turns cooking.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, that is it.
Kerry Diamond:
Did you adapt to this right away? Did you find this a very natural way to exist?
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Well, I will say that in the interview... Because I had to do an interview to move in. At the time, I'd viewed so many flats; couldn't afford any of them. This was a last resort. I did not want to live in a warehouse. The warehouse community in London have a reputation for being-
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah, I have “Fleabag” in my brain. That's what I see.
Rosie Kellett:
And it's parties and raving and lots of drugs and really hardcore lifestyles that I just did not want any part in. And I didn't know this, but the one I was moving into had a nickname. It was dubbed the retirement warehouse by our neighbors because we all liked to go to bed on time and we all had normal-ish jobs and we didn't rave on a Tuesday. I didn't know that. When I got to the interview, it turns out there were 24 people looking at the room that day, or 12 that night, 12 the next night. When I got there, I looked at the room, and it really was a windowless cell. It was just a white box of a room, no window, no fresh air. And I thought, if this is all I can afford, maybe I shouldn't be living in London anymore.
And then I went down and sat at the kitchen table and chatted to everyone, and they had obviously... They're so bored of talking about it, but they'd reel off the whole spiel. And I think usually people are a bit like, "I don't want to eat your food." They have issues with it. But I was sitting there, and my heart was going, beating really fast. And I was like, "Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, this is perfect." And I was like, "Play it cool. Don't look too desperate. But I also need to make them know that I love cooking, but I don't want to look desperate." I had to try and be as cool as possible.
Kerry Diamond:
This was like a date.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, it was a date. It was so a date. But my only concern was I don't understand how you don't run out of food. I don't understand how certain ingredients, even if you just shop once a week, what if you run out of all the onions, and then what are you doing then? And what if all the eggs go too quickly and then there's not enough? I just couldn't wrap my head around it working with that many people. And I also felt a bit like you're not going to be as... These people I was looking at, I was like, "Well, I don't know that you're going to care as much as I care about a good quality butter or anything like that." And so I don't want to eat crap butter; and how's that going to work? I had a few concerns, but I was like, "No, beggars can't be choosers. We just get along with it."
Kerry Diamond:
Right. You didn't want to be known as that butter bitch, and that's why you didn't get, and that's why they didn't want you in the house.
Rosie Kellett:
I didn't want to be the snobby bitch that was like, "We have to be using extra olive oil."
Kerry Diamond:
Because you know they'd be talking about you for weeks after that. "Remember that girl with the butter?"
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I did become the girl with the butter, but I think in a loving way. Anyway, moved in. And the only way to learn it is just to experience that it does work. And I can't really explain it, but it just does. Yeah, I took to it very quickly. And actually, the cooking once a week thing was in a way not enough for me. If people were out and there was a spare night, I'd be like, "Oh, I'll cook a second night this week," because I really want to cook again.
The biggest thing I think I noticed was I'd gone from living in a normal share house where everyone just fends for themselves and I was working three jobs. I was really busy. And I would come home and be exhausted and have to cook and just feel a bit like, ooh. And then after a couple of months of being in the warehouse, I realized I had all this extra time in my day.
And we had this dinner bell. The building was huge. In order to get everyone downstairs, you'd ring the bell when dinner was ready. My old housemate, Bea, who actually photographed “In For Dinner,” we learned has a hunger trigger. When she hears the bell, she's instantly hungry. And so if anyone accidentally nudged the bell a different time of day, she'd be like, "Is there..." And there wasn't any food, then she'd be gutted. But yeah, that thing of having an extra hour to write in my bedroom and then hearing this bell ring, it was like a motivation to keep going and do a bit more work, and then come downstairs and eat a lovely meal. It was revolutionary for me.
Kerry Diamond:
And I should say when I said “Fleabag” earlier, I was not saying that Rosie is living a fleabag existence or that she in the warehouse and the whole situation, was that that's that terrific TV show.
Rosie Kellett:
Very good TV show. But you joke; we did have a flea infestation once. That was a quite iconic, traumatizing flea infestation that cost a grand and a half to rectify. We didn't have that money. It was awful. I am actually quite traumatized by fleas.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay. Sorry. Sorry to bring that up. Okay, let's talk about some of the other rules, because obviously you have to have a lot of rules in place to make this work. And I heard that one of your unbreakable rules was everything has to be labeled when it goes in the fridge.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Well, because each house member has a different chore, which sounds really strict and archaic, but essentially it just means there's a responsibility for which you're in charge of that keeps the house running well. And with seven busy people living in a massive building, you need that. There's someone who does the recycling, someone washes all the tea towels and the bath mats and makes sure there's a clean rotation in the bathrooms. My job is still actually fridge defender. Which just-
Kerry Diamond:
Fridge defender. Okay.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, I'm the fridge defender, Chris is the laundry maiden, Wojciech is the recycling king or something. I can't remember. But yeah, it just means in the warehouse we had two fridges; one was a leftover's fridge and one was the main fridge. And so once a week, I pulled everything out of the fridges, wiped them down, disinfected the inside, and then would put everything back in. And I'd try and do it a day before the new shop arrived so that then when the fresh food came, there was a clean fridge to put it in.
And with seven people all working different and eating different things and living these lives, there was often... There'd be a pot of yogurt that someone had lost the lid to, so it was uncovered and had gone crusty and disgusting. And when I got that responsibility, I was like, "Listen guys, if you don't label it, if you don't put your name on it, if there's no date on it, I will bin it." And I don't care how good it looks. I don't care if it smells fresh, I'll just bin it. Because I think it was just the professional kitchen background of fridges need to be in order, and I'm miserable if they're not. Yeah, we still live by that rule, and everyone gets it now.
Kerry Diamond:
Now, what if you have your own things? Because dealing with a lot of people's allergies and aversions, obviously, but somebody maybe wants the ice cream they want or the peanut butter they want.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. And in that case, they put their name on it, and then nobody touches it.
Kerry Diamond:
And people are respectful of that.
Rosie Kellett:
Very, very. You have to be. Yeah, we've never had a case where it's like someone's eaten my thing because it would just be so vicious. Everything would crumble, I think. Everyone respects that. And Pierre, one of my housemates, he's Filipino Chinese, and he really likes his kimchi, and so he'll go to the Asian supermarket and get a really good kimchi, and it's like no one touches it because it's Pierre's kimchi. And same with I have an obsession with only one cottage cheese. I think cottage cheese in general is bad, but there's this one brand in the U.K. called Longley Farm, which is a Yorkshire brand. I was raised on the Longley Farm yogurts by my grandma, so I have a nostalgia for it. And it is the best. And you can only get it in certain shops, so I buy my own supply and label it and no one touches it. And it would be an issue if they did.
Kerry Diamond:
Now that's going to be my mission to find it next time I'm in the U.K. You do have someone who does all the purchasing. And I'm guessing there's a lot of spreadsheets, and he will say, "Get your requests in."
Rosie Kellett:
Yes. No spreadsheet, just an encyclopedic knowledge of what we like to eat. Pierre deserves a medal. He manages the budget and also does the shopping. But by doing the shopping, I mean he doesn't online shop once a week. He has the basket that we always add to. There's a basket saved, which has all of the basics that we always eat: eggs, milk, fruit, and veg. And then he'll say on the group chat, he's like, "Well, get your orders in."
And then if I want to cook something specific and I know I want to make, I don't know, caponata or something, then I'll say, "Can you make sure you get aubergines and courgettes? And if we don't have any capers, can I get some more capers?" Because we'll always have tinned tomatoes, he'll always buy onions and garlic. And so that's how it happens. And I don't know how he does it, but he just always makes sure that we're within the budget. We've never gone over, but we're also never sure of food.
In a strange way, since leaving the warehouse... We were evicted in March, and we now live in a normal house but still live in this system. We have more food now and the money's going further. And none of us can understand it. We're like, "How?" We joke, we were seven in the warehouse; we're now five. The two that left are a couple, Tom and Justin, who we adore, but they were thinking about living together anyway, so it was a perfect moment for them to do that. And they've gone. And they're both very tall, big boys. It dawned on us. We were like, "With Tom and Justin not around..." Tom would probably in a day what I would eat in a week or something. He eats a lot because he's a big boy; he needs it. Yeah, it just works.
Kerry Diamond:
That's so funny. Sorry, Tom and Justin.
Rosie Kellett:
Sorry, Tom and Justin.
Kerry Diamond:
You were evicted.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
That's never a fun thing-
Rosie Kellett:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
... when you're not invited to resign your lease.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah.
Kerry Diamond:
What happened?
Rosie Kellett:
It's a very long story, but at the time I'd chosen to go to Rome for a month in February. I'd done it the year before in Berlin, and it was actually when I was writing “In For Dinner.” My deadline was March, and I was like, "February is the worst time in the world to be in London." It's like you are so far from what was summer. And January I can just about deal with, but February is horrendous, so I left the year before to go write my book. It was really good. And Berlin is just another cold, gray city, I'd swapped one for another, but it was new and the food scene was new and there was different people, and it was exciting enough to keep me going.
I thought this year I'm going to do that again, and I decided to go to Rome. I was learning Italian. Who wouldn't want to be in Rome? I found a place that was cheaper than my rent in London, so I was saving money by living in Rome on my own. And anyway, it was dreamy.
And two weeks into that month, there was rumblings of, I don't know, danger back home. And there was a lot of big house meetings on the phone. And very long story short, our leaseholder wanted us out for reasons very personal to her. She's not our landlord. There's a landlord that the money eventually gets to. The leaseholder was the middle person. That middle person did not want us living there anymore and made it very, very difficult for us to stay. We tried to resolve the issue and it did not get resolved. And then she served an eviction notice, which was completely illegal. There were no grounds for eviction. We could have stayed, but we decided that it would be more hassle to stay and fight than to leave and preserve our energy and happiness.
Kerry Diamond:
Are you turning all this into a TV show?
Rosie Kellett:
No, but I should be.
Kerry Diamond:
As you talk through this, I'm just seeing all these different glimpses of shows that I have loved over the years.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, yeah, it's something. I have to give it to a friend of mine or something. We ended up having about three weeks to find a new home, a new supper club venue, because we are a supper club.
Kerry Diamond:
Oh, wait, we didn't even talk about your supper club.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, that was started in the warehouse, it was ran in the warehouse. It was-
Kerry Diamond:
Is that part of why she wanted you out?
Rosie Kellett:
I wonder. I wonder. But-
Kerry Diamond:
Because those got big.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah. And they're actually quite small in reality, as in we serve 32 people and we do two nights back to back. And everyone that lives there is like a waiter. It's amazing. It's all our best friends and our boyfriends and cousins, everyone just pitches in and we do this thing.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. I guess in the context of having seven people living there, 32 is not that much.
Rosie Kellett:
No. And I guess also in the context of events in London that are doing well and are popular, we were being encouraged to make it bigger and bigger and bigger and do 100 people. And me and Virginia, who jointly run it, were like, "Actually, what makes it special is that there aren't that many people here and that people will make friendships with strangers and it feels intimate and cozy." And it's not like going to a restaurant, and you are in someone's house and it is all a bit random. We loved that about it. But at this point in the year when we were like, "We need to leave," we were three weeks away from the supper club, so we had to find new home, new supper club venue. And then I was six weeks out from the book coming out, and I'd planned to do the book launch party at the warehouse as well, obviously. Then I'm like, "I also need a book launch venue." And so there were these three weeks where we all just lost our mind. And we did find a house and we did find a new venue, and it was all good in the end, but it was not a very... I remember returning from Rome on the 1st of March, and by the 15th we had to be sorted. And I just thought, this is not what I had planned to return to.
Kerry Diamond:
Wow. How do you resolve differences with the group?
Rosie Kellett:
We have house meetings quite often. It's the only way, in my experience, to resolve conflict. I think, in most parts of life, good communication is the backbone of things working. And we've all learned that over the years that if we are not communicating, things go unnoticed, they fester, they get worse and worse and worse. Every one of my housemates at some time or another or currently has done therapy and has been in therapy. And I think we've all learned a language ability and a confidence to share how we're feeling in a way that isn't antagonistic or... I can't think of the right word now, but it doesn't create more conflict, it actually just opens a door for honest communication. As simple as it sounds, it's a regular meeting and listening, basically.
Kerry Diamond:
That's great. You and I were talking earlier about what good timing this is because you've got so many people going off to college, university who love cooking. So many young people really love cooking these days, and maybe this appeals to them, what you're talking about, this whole idea of communal living. If you're starting this from scratch, where do you begin?
Rosie Kellett:
It's a good question. I actually think to start this entire thing from scratch would be quite intimidating. And so when I've spoken to people in the past, I think the easiest way to inch your way to living a little bit more communally is to choose one night of the week; and maybe it's a Sunday. And you say, "On Sunday, we're going to cook together and we're going to eat together, and we'll all chip in a bit of money," and then see how that goes. And if you enjoy it, then you could start implementing a shopping list and maybe a bit more of the systems. But I think even with work, if you all work in an office and you like your colleagues and you all like food, it makes a lot more sense for everyone to bring a dish and everyone share and you get to be four different things than bringing your own lunch in every single day and have a fatigue of thinking about what you're going to have for lunch.
I think in small baby steps, it's better to get into something. But if you love the sound of it and you're about to move into a student house, maybe your second year at college or something and you want to do it, then I think just give it a go. An online shop is the way we make it work, because it would be bizarre for Pierre to have to go to the supermarket once a week and lug all of the food home. In London, that wouldn't work, so doing an online shop is good. It's also really good for staying within budget because you have a constant tally of what you're spending. And if you don't have the money in the account, you can't go over. Online shops are great. And I think, yeah, just giving it a go, really.
It's really not that tricky. I think it's just because we've all been conditioned in this late stage capitalism world we live in, we've been encouraged to be solo and be a good consumer and live on our own and have one of everything and just keep to ourselves, but actually, I feel like we're wired the other way. And it actually feels far more natural for me to be the other way. And I think the more you encourage yourself to live in these systems that are more reciprocal and why people share and labor is divided, it feels right because it's easier. But the idea of it might feel intimidating before you've done it, but it's good.
Kerry Diamond:
Well, I hope the success of your book really kickstarts something.
Rosie Kellett:
Me too.
Kerry Diamond:
Because just the way things are right now, everything you're talking about makes so much sense, Rosie.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Thank you.
Kerry Diamond:
Yeah. The book is fantastic. As I was going through it, I was like, "I really want to make everything that's in this book." I love that the recipes are scaled for some bigger parties because you don't... Not parties necessarily, but more people because you don't always get that. And scaling is not always easy. It's not just a matter of times two or times four.
Rosie Kellett:
No.
Kerry Diamond:
Can you give any advice for scaling?
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, I think that's a really good point, because what I learned about it when I was working at... There's a bakery in London called E5 Bakehouse, which is quite a well-known sourdough bakery, but they also have a kitchen, and they'll do breakfast and lunch and brunch. And I started working there, and it was my first savory role. I've done a lot of baking, sweet baking, but in a kitchen as a chef, it was my first role. And one of the responsibilities, if you're on the lunch shift, you have to cook the main, which is just the main meal. You need to make enough food for 70 people in about two and a half hours. It's always vegetarian, but you need a vegan option as well. And it had to be using organic British produce. There was quite a lot of parameters. And there were no recipes; you had to come up with the thing you were going to make.
And everyone else was quite good at just coming in and freewheeling it, but I, the day before, would be like, "Okay, I'm going to make a chili." And so I'd write a recipe for chili, and then I'd be like, "Okay, well, we times by 10, because this one feeds six, and I need it to feed at least 70." I learned by just timesing by 10 that that did not work. I once made a cauliflower korma or something, and I think it had green cardamom in it, and I just times by 10, and it ended up with 200 grams of ground cardamom. And we got complaints. And I was like, "Okay, that's not how that works."
I guess it's a little bit of trial and error. And I think if you're generally cooking for two people and then you're going to have four friends around, so it's going to be six and you have no idea, firstly, just use my recipes; they're all for six. Buy the book. But I guess you could look up the recipes I've written, and you'll see that if you have a tablespoon of olive oil in a thing for two people, like a stew or whatever, there's not suddenly six tablespoons of olive oil in a stew that I've written. Things like seasonings and olive oil and fat and stuff at the base of a recipe will not be time six, but maybe the protein will be. And I guess you learn it through habit and actually doing it and things going a bit wrong and then things going really well.
Kerry Diamond:
Right. It really is the doing.
Rosie Kellett:
It's the doing.
Kerry Diamond:
Just plunge in there and cook a little bit. You will be shocked at how much you improve.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, having said that, my housemate... I feel so sorry for Wojciech; I push him under the bus every time I do a podcast. He's Polish, and he moved in, and he really didn't cook very much at all and was very under confident. And a lot of people say to me, "Is there a really bad cook in the house? Is there one night of the week you don't want to eat dinner?" And I'm like, "No." But there was a time when Wojciech was a far less practiced... And there were a few nights where we had a curry with raw potato, and we'd be like, "This is crunchy. This is new." But with encouragement, he got a lot better. And it was that encouragement, I think, and the practice and no one being like, "This is disgusting," that allowed him to build his confidence and get better and better and better. And he now has three or four meals that he'll make on a rotation that are great. The pantry pasta in “In For Dinner” is based on the pasta he makes. When I'm like, "What are you making for dinner?" And he'll say, "Oh, I'm just doing a quick pasta," and I know it's going to be anchovies, capers, garlic, all the things I love.
Yeah, I just think I've witnessed it. Because I come from a family of confident cooks, so it's weird for me to meet someone who's just a little bit unsure. But I've watched him grow and learn through doing it. And the other day, he decided he wanted to make pizza for loads of people. And he looked at my book, he'd looked at the pizza recipe. He thought, that doesn't sound too tricky. I don't think he'd read it closely enough because it was the day. And he was messaging me going, "I'm going to make pizza. Where's the mixer?" And I was like, "Well, firstly the mixer's not at home." But I was like, "Are you sure you want to make pizza? Because my recipe is an overnight proof situation. And you could do it today, but it's going to be a lot of work. The mixer's not there, so you're going to have to knead it by hand. And for 12 people, that's going to be 20 minutes of kneading non-stop. Are you sure you want to do that?" And then there was a long silence, and then he came back and he was like, "On reflection, I think I'll cook a quick pasta."
Kerry Diamond:
I love that. Let's talk about some of the recipes. Of all the recipes in the book, I know this is hard because you probably love them all equally, is there one that's a gateway recipe that would be a good one for people to start with?
Rosie Kellett:
Actually, the pantry pasta I think is even just for the fact that this was Wojciech's confidence one. I've seen other people make it that struggle, and the idea of cooking for six people makes them want to die. That I think is a good place to start, not only because it's easy, but it's also based on pantry ingredients that you have in the household. And it's extremely flexible; you could swap in lots of different things for it.
I think everyone has a version of this pasta, but I call it pantry pasta. The basic idea is just good olive oil, some garlic. And then from there, the world's your oyster. But my version, I put a whole tin of anchovies in, there's a good amount of chopped capers, chopped olives. Doesn't matter what kind of olive; chuck that in. You're cooking your pasta in the background. The whole thing takes 15 to 20 minutes. And then I'm like, "You could use anything that you've got." You could do sun-dried tomatoes, marinated artichokes. You could throw some beans in. I always do the zest of a whole lemon, the juice of a whole lemon, a lot of fresh parsley at the end, teaspoon of chili flakes. My pro tip actually is use any shape of pasta, but rather than draining your pasta and trying to remember to save the pasta water and burning yourself in the process, which is what I always do is scold myself with pasta water, I like to scoop all the pasta out of the pasta water and straight into the pot where you're sauce is bubbling away because you bring-
Kerry Diamond:
Your pasta is wet and soaking.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah, you bring the pasta water with it. But also, I feel that you can control the cooking of the pasta a lot better. I like quite an al dente pasta, so I take it out even before it's al dente, cooked enough for me, and I let it cook a bit more with the other bits in the pan, the garlic and the capers and the olives and the lemon. And then you've got this pan of starchy water right next to you and you can just take a tablespoon or two and slosh it in.
And then the magic of the pantry pasta is you're tossing, tossing, tossing. Everything emulsifies and amalgamates, and you get this very glossy, sexy pasta that has flecks of chili and lemon zest and capers and all of this running through it, it costs next to nothing to make. It's vegan by default if you don't put any of the tinned fish in. But you could add tin fish, you could add Parmesan. It's extremely flexible. And you've probably got all the ingredients in the house anyway. And if you don't, you adapt.
Kerry Diamond:
Sounds so good. You also have a pantry ramen, right? Did I see that?
Rosie Kellett:
I do. And I feel like it doesn't get enough attention. I'm so proud of the pantry ramen. I came up with the idea when I was living in Berlin writing this book, and I got sick. And I was like, "All I need is ramen." But to make a good ramen, you need to be boiling your bones for a while. And it's long to do a good one, and so I was like, "I want to make a version that is using Asian pantry ingredients that I've already got." Comes together in 10 minutes. It's... What's the word? Instant noodles. I would buy instant noodles, cook them. Tofu puffs are like a hero in this recipe, but you could use any protein. But I love tofu puffs because they soak up some of the broth. I basically just warm them through with the noodles as they're cooking. And then I make the sauce in the ramen bowl. The recipe serves one because the idea is you're making it for yourself and you just want ramen.
And it's got Asian sesame paste in it, but you could use tahini or you could use peanut butter if you don't have that in, a little bit of soy, some vinegar, chili crisp oil, grated garlic. I think there's some thinly sliced scallions as well that go on top. And then you basically thin out this quite thick paste that you've made in the bottom of the bowl. Thin it out with the broth from the noodles that have been cooking in the background until you get to your desired consistency. Add the noodles. And then I like to top mine with a marinated egg, which I also have a recipe for in the book, the Korean-inspired marinated egg. And yeah, it's like if you don't have 20 pounds to buy a delivery or Uber Eats, whatever, ramen, and you can't go out and you don't have time to cook it, this is the next best thing, in my opinion.
Kerry Diamond:
I might have to make that very soon. I love a peanut butter noodle situation so much. Tell us about your Substack, because, like you mentioned, you started it early. You thought you were late, but you were earlier than a lot of folks. How is your Substack different from your cookbook? Or is it not?
Rosie Kellett:
No, it is a little different, actually. It's definitely got similarities. It's called The Late Plate. And I guess the other thing to explain the name of it, in our house, if you're not in for dinner, you can ask for a late plate, which means when you get home, there'll be a plate of food on the table for you. And it's a great system if you work late. And then Virginia, my housemate will always work late, but she'll ask for a late plate every day, so it becomes her lunch at work the next day, which is clever. Anyway, that's the name, The Late Plate.
Generally speaking, I share recipes. Every Wednesday, I share something. And nine times out of 10, it's a recipe. It'll be what I'm cooking. It'll be what I'm craving. It'll often be something with a story behind it. But then occasionally, I'll do a piece of more personal writing, and I'm actually sharing something which I feel very nervous about, actually. It's all about body image and the beauty industry, and I guess that, really, about getting older, how I'm feeling about my appearance and my body and the things I've learned, I guess, over the years as a woman and how I actually feel better as I'm getting older. But I have had a very bad relationship with body image in the past. I use it for that as well. And I find that Substack as a space is one of the most... Especially compared to Instagram and social media where everything is very quick and there's not really space for nuance or explanation, I find I don't want to put anything too dangerous on social media because it could be misunderstood, and then it can spiral out of control. But with Substack, it's very intentional. The audience, they've all chosen to be there. They've subscribed. They might even be paying to subscribe.
When I share something more vulnerable, I think while this is still scary and I'm going to have a bit of a vulnerability hangover tomorrow, when I've done it in the past, I've received so many lovely pieces of writing back from my subscribers. It's felt very reciprocal. I've learned things from them. I know it's helped people. And so it feels to be quite freeing and important and very... What's the word? As a writer, you don't often have the permission or the freedom to do what you want. You need to get a book deal or you have an editor or something. But on Substack, you are your own editor. There's a word I can't think of. This jet lag has got me. I guess galvanizing. It makes me want to do more. It feeds me. And it's the one thing I do every week that I look forward to all week. Yeah, if anyone is not on Substack as a writer or a reader, I encourage you to join because it feels like a very safe corner of the internet where good things are still happening.
Kerry Diamond:
You are skipping to the studio to write sad songs in your own way, right?
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm skipping to the coffee shop to write sad newsletters.
Kerry Diamond:
Okay, last question. If you had to be trapped on a desert island with one food celebrity, who would it be and why?
Rosie Kellett:
Gosh. It would have to be Nigella Lawson. I'm a real fan.
Kerry Diamond:
So funny. I just knew. I just knew you were going to say her.
Rosie Kellett:
Yeah. I love her. I love her cooking. I love her writing. I think she's hilarious, and I think she's an icon. If Nigella would come to the island with me, then I'd be thrilled.
Kerry Diamond:
We love Nigella here.
Rosie Kellett:
We do.
Kerry Diamond:
She is the best, as are you, Rosie. I'm so thrilled that I got the opportunity to talk to you in person. All the success in the world. All your messages are wonderful. The world needs you right now.
Rosie Kellett:
Thank you, Kerry.
Kerry Diamond:
That's it for today's show. Thank you to Rosie Kellett for joining me. Pick up a copy of her debut book, “In For Dinner,” at your favorite indie bookstore. Please give Radio Cherry Bombe a follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen. Our theme song is by the band Tralala. Special thanks to Joseph Hazan at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Our producers are Catherine Baker and Jenna Sadhu, and our talent guru is Londyn Crenshaw. Thanks for listening, everybody. You're the Bombe.